Sarah Larbi: Natalie, welcome to our podcast. How are you?
Natalie Cloutier: Good, how are you? Thanks for having me.
Sarah Larbi: I'm always so excited to talk to you. You've presented at our webinar in the past. You were on my podcast prior as well. You are such an inspiration. I love what you're doing. Like I love that you are essentially doing a BRRRR strategy. But quite differently than what many people might believe. So before we get into that though, give us a little bit of background of how you got started in real estate investing and then what your strategy is.
Natalie Cloutier: First of all, big compliments coming from you. Thank you. We do the BRRRR, but instead of four Rs, there's three. So for us, we stand it as build, rent, refinance, and repeat. So instead of the typical renovation, buy an existing property, renovate. Rented out, refinance, we build from the ground up and the rest of the process is basically the same rent refinance. But yeah, so that's our thing. We fell into it. It wasn't really something that we planned.
We learned about investing and about what we do on the fly, and we still are except now we learned about books and podcasts. In the beginning it was all on the fly. We started at 21 and now we're 28. And, I forget the amount of units. I think it's 21 units, because we sold a couple. So yeah, about that.
Alfonso Salemi: I love that true sign of an investor. You're looking up and like counting on your fingers. Weight. Sold a future, don't know the exact number of rental units. So that's definitely the true sign of an investor and wow. So I love that though. So the build, rent, refinance, repeat, that's what you're doing now over, almost close to 30 units, 30 doors that, that you're doing. So how did you get your start?
You didn't just come out of the gate and build your first property, right? And right out of the gate, or did you, so give us a little bit of a background on how maybe you did. I don't know. I'd love to hear the first story, how you took the step or maybe you were born or real estate investor right out of the room and started investing in duplexing cribs and playpens and things like that. Tell us how you got your journey.
Natalie Cloutier: You know what? You're actually not that far away from taking it from a kid because I always every time, ever since I could hold a pencil, I've been drawing like house plans. Okay. My mom always saw this was my sister's room, my room, and I was doing the whole layout.
I always drew houses, so I studied architectural technology, so I became a custom home designer for five years, just like designing custom homes, renovations, stuff like that. I did multi-units in my five year career as well. But really we started because we wanted to have a house obviously, but we didn't have any money to our names.
We had just graduated from college and just started on the work on the workforce. And My parents told us about this loan that they used to do back in the day where it's basically you build a house from the ground up, but instead of putting down 20%, you save that 20% as your in your labor.
You tell the bank easy math, let's say your house gets evaluated for like a 100K. And then they say, okay, we'll give you 80% of that, obviously in draws, and it's up to you to build it for that amount. So it's up to you to build it for 80%. So you gotta get in there. You you gotta swing the hammer.
You gotta do a lot of the work yourself so that you can save that 20% and you don't have to put that down. So that's how we started. We had bought a condo first and really realized we were not condo people tried to sell it, the market was low. So we rented it out and then instead we found this lot next to my sister.
We just decided let's jump into building. We both had husband studied in architecture with me as well, so he had a bit of that, construction knowledge background, but it's really not the same, what they teach you in school and what you actually learn on the field. Most of it, we just had to get in there and figure it out.
We did have my parents who had built, they built four houses within four years, just before they had us. So they hadn't built in a long time, but they were still there backing us up. Like my dad's always been in renovation and he used to frame houses, so he was guiding us and showing us the ropes on how to manage the construction properly, how to send in your trades, how to do all that, and.
We learned a lot from him. But yeah, we did just throw ourselves into it in a way where like we were scared. Like I think my husband vomited like the first week he was so nervous. And yeah, so that's how we started. We did our house. We designed it with a secondary unit in the basement so that we can have that extra income cause we were only 20 years, 21 years old. At the time, we didn't make a lot of money either, so we wanted that extra income. We were really nervous. So we did that and then after a year, did the refi and took that HeLOC and did the second property.
Alfonso Salemi: Wow. You were literally, you were, your parents were building as you and your siblings were being born. So really from the womb. So I love that.
Natalie Cloutier: I guess so.
Sarah Larbi: Very cool. You are really inspirational and something like this is usually, as people are getting a lot of experience and more comfortable and they get into that now. For somebody that is looking into getting into building and I think you've got some four units that you're doing now, what are like maybe three insights that you can share with them that you learned along the way, the hard way, potentially maybe challenges that you've had that you can say. If you do this or you do this differently or you don't do this, you might be a little bit better off. Are there some insights that you can provide us, if you had to pick like your top three?
Natalie Cloutier: Actually I just did an Instagram post about the common mistakes that the most first time DIY builders make. I'd have to pull it out again, but like one of the things is just maybe going too fast. The one thing I'd say is when you're looking at your lot to buy, your lot to build, do your research before the deal becomes firm. So ask around, ask the city, check with the city and see.
Make sure that what you wanna build is possible. Check in with the conservation authority check to make sure that there's no environmental red flags. Check in. Title lawyers, whatever. Just get in there, hustle, do as much of the information possible. Oh, also check in with the utility companies that you're gonna be connecting to.
Like hydro gas company, whatever. Make sure that there's no hiccup there because Yeah, I've seen horror stories where anyways it's a long story, but just make sure that you can get your services in. So that's the one thing that I would say, I'm not sure if I'm answering your question correctly, but I'm just deferring it into mistakes instead because I think that it's an important thing.
Also underestimating the cost and the timeframe because especially if you're building this year is going to be crazily insane. Like good luck basically, if you're building this year, because it's not gonna be easy. It's going to be a huge hassle. And costs are unpredictable right now.
Nobody can lock in their prices. So if somebody's giving you an estimate, Chances are they're gonna say, by the time you book this job, it probably will have gone up. Nobody can lock in prices. So it's it's really crazy. But even on a normal year, a lot of people will just u underestimate the costs.
Just like a typical renovation, always have a contingency budget and also don't think that it's going to be like a renovation project cuz a lot of people start renovating and then they work theirselves into building and they assume that the process is gonna be the same as a renovation.
It is really not, there's a lot more steps coordination involved, and it's gonna take a longer, depending on the type of build or renovation you're doing. But yeah it's it's more complex. So I always tell people, Make sure that you're going in fully mentally ready.
If you're doing it with your partner, if you're building your own house kind of thing, like we did, my husband and I had it like a face-to-face chat and we're like, okay, we can do this. We will survive this. We will not cry , we will still love each other at the end. So have that like mental check like every quarter or whatever because yeah it's, it can definitely test you. So don't under underestimate.
Alfonso Salemi: That reminds me of a movie. I think it was the League of Their Own, the Tom Hanks. There's no crying in baseball. There's no crying in construction or building. So yeah, there really is though, , I'm sure. Yeah. And I'm sure there are there's probably some tears of frustration, but hopefully there's more tears of joy and laughing and fun along the way. That's why you've continued to do it multiple times, dozens of times.
That's cool. So I guess, I always remember construction, it was one of my first jobs. I was like 12 years, 13 years old. I'll call it volunteering. It wasn't a job. Okay. Cause I was underage. Great. But, and I was I had a family member that built houses and I was always just the extra, if the brick layer was there, I helped out the brick layer.
If it was the carpenter, the plumber, whatever. And the fun part was always at the end sweeping up the house getting it ready for the people that were moving in. So that was like the big day, the closing day. And I know big builders, they have multiple closing days, like the first one, which is never the one, the second one, the third one, and then the one that they legally until they have to start paying back.
Does that work the same when, obviously you're doing it on a smaller scale, one and two a time. When I think of building, I think of obviously the big builders across the cities that just buy acreages and then they turn 'em into subdivisions. You're doing more of infill lots if I'm not mistaken. Walk us through maybe some of the similarities that the common person would look at. Oh, that's the same as a builder, a big builder, and then the key, main differences of the benefits of you doing it from a smaller builder perspective.
Natalie Cloutier: I think the way you're talking about it is it's more development, right? So development defers greatly. It's a whole other ballgame. Like we're gonna be jumping into that real soon. We bought it. We're buying, taking possession on early May of a two point something acre property where we wanna develop to do like a 24 unit maybe on it. So that's gonna be like a major project cause right now we've never been over four units.
We know that it's about a two year planning phase. Cause we gotta do environmental studies, we gotta do hydrogeological studies, whatever we gotta rezone. There's a whole bunch of stuff that comes into play. So we're planning for a two year thing and. Honestly, I don't know how much to budget either for like just those studies, but right now I'm thinking a 100 k, give or take.
I don't know, but I wanna be ready for that. So developing, like doing big builder stuff is definitely different. What we do and what I recommend people to start with, don't start with a development project you try to get a lot like an infill, like you said. So for people who don't know, what an infill is usually let's say you're in a, it's basically a lot that's already been developed and severed and it's ready to build on.
Usually that's the kind of lots that we'll find here or on a smaller. Builder scale. So we'll find maybe a lot between two properties downtown where maybe somebody like bought, they bought like a, an old property and it had a huge side yard, and so they divided part of that yard and then we bought that yard.
We're just creating a new home in between two existing homes. They do that a lot in like the downtown cores, maybe I'm from Ottawa, so they do that a lot in Ottawa. We don't do it in Ottawa. We're in the outskirts, but still it's the same concept. I definitely recommend that.
We started in the country slide too, though, where you needed like private septic fields. So for a lot of people that scares them because the maintenance and if you've never been on a septic field and the installation, whatever it's unknown. But we've done most of our properties with septic fields.
It's not something that scares us and it helps us like find those better deals because you'll pay a lot less in the countryside than you will in a downtown urban area. So that's one of the things I guess that that defers definitely you don't usually need environmental studies and stuff like that for those type of lots, unless you have to do like a rezoning.
I would always say try to find a residential zoning and then especially in Ontario, we have the provision where you can do secondary dwelling units, which is really amazing because I don't think other provinces have that. But basically that means that you can add like a basement apartment to your unit.
If you're doing like a semi, like that's how we do our fourplex, we'll build a semi-detached side by side duplex, and then we'll apply for secondary dwelling units in the base, which makes it a fourplex. So instead of rezoning for like R four to get those maximum amount of units or whatever, that's how we do it.
Then at a certain point, like you can't really, like maybe five units and up, you can't really do that anymore. So that's where I guess development would become more of a challenge. But yeah, you need more capital to do that and it's just a whole other ballgame.
Sarah Larbi: Absolutely. Now, so speaking of capital, earlier when we started the podcast, you said you would go to the bank and they give you draws. And I believe this is this is Dejar Day. Just from a prior conversation, I'm pretty sure that's what it was. And so essentially the 20 down, you use your labor and your own, Blood, sweat and tears to justify that cost. Can you touch on what that looks like for somebody that, hasn't worked through this type of financing with the Deja Day? It could be other companies as well, but maybe just walk us through how you did that and how you will, that allowed you to scale as well.
Natalie Cloutier: Good point, because actually the 20% down in labor is something that they'll accept when it's your primary residence. When it becomes a secondary residence, it's a little difficult.
It's more difficult, you can still do the 20% saving in, for the down, but in, you have to have it available in capital in some form. So you can either be a HELOC, a line of credit, something like that, or maybe you can borrow that money from a friend or private investor, but the bank will need to see that you have that capital available.
Doesn't necessarily mean you have to spend it, but usually they'll say, we want you to spend a certain amount of money and then we'll start giving you the draws. So it does become more complicated, especially For us where now we're at, like after a certain amount of properties, it became, we had to be switched over to the commercial side of the bank.
Again, they had different lending restrictions and the more you grow, the more complicated it gets in a way because it becomes more commercial. But for somebody starting out, like everybody asks me how do I start? I tell them, house hack with a build. Because it's just easier, you don't have to have that 20% down available.
Unless the rules have changed. So don't quote me on that cause our house has been six years and things change a lot on a regular basis for lending practices. But that's how we started. So if the rules are still the same you don't have to have the 20 pound available. You just need to show that, you've got your budget and you're able to build your house for that amount of money.
You gotta get your plans drawn up. You gotta get a bid, a budget in. So like we do a lot of we do plans for my cousin, he just built his own house. Last year we did the same for him. We did the design of his house, we did the budget for him. We worked with him, figure out what he was gonna do himself, what he was gonna hire for, and then he brought that to the bank.
Again he got accepted the same way we did. So that's how I would say. And then if you're able, To design it with a basement apartment so you can get that extra income and that you can go and refi after a year, cause your value will have gone up with that extra unit. Then you can get a heloc right?
Then you can keep going with that process. But yeah, that would be the best way to do it because starting out right away with a secondary property, , if you don't have the capital, it's tough. If you do have the capital it's easy to do. Because we are actually doing, we're managing a build for a client.
They've never built before, but they sold properties and they have the capital. And so they hired us to manage the, it's a fourplex. So they've never done this. They've hired us to do it. They got approved right away cause they had the capital available. It's when you don't have that capital that it becomes more of a challenge.
Sarah Larbi: Absolutely. And like you said, just check with, the lenders and financial, everything changes all the time. Now is this without your, the land itself, does that have to be purchased outright or is that part of what was offering you?
Natalie Cloutier: It depends. You can buy the lot off right and obviously that helps because you'll get to the bank and you'll see you've already spent that amount of money, if you're able to buy a cash or something like that.
Like with us, we didn't have any capital when we started, so they incorporated the lot loan into the build loan. So I'm not sure exactly how they did it, but yeah, they incorporated the whole thing. And then when we took possession of the lot, they like gave us the first draw for the lot.
Then that was like, that kind of counted as a first draw or. It's been six years, so I don't really remember. Now we buy our lots cash and then we do the whole process. But yeah, you're usually able to get'em to incorporate it. And usually what they'll say too is they'll say, okay we'll give you like a mortgage on your lot for a year, but you have to build.
You have to put the shovel in from here, from today to one year from now. And if the shovel's not in, then you'll, you're gonna have to pay down like 30% of the capital plus interest. So it's really important that when you buy your lot and you get that, cause it's the cheapest kind of loan that you can get. Just make sure you're ready to build within that year. Again, this is just based on my personal experience, so to everyone listening, get your own info. Cause I don't know.
Alfonso Salemi: This is critical. This is such valuable information because I know myself never developed building anything myself. You talk to others and you say, oh, I'm gonna go find a chunk of land and build a nice house and I commonly hear personally, oh, you can't do that. You can't get a mortgage on raw land. And I'm probably just asking the people that have never done it. That's why I love having this conversation, somebody like yourself that has gone through it.
You were mentioning all the different design, environmental the permits the servicing. So obviously over the years and with the multiple projects that you've done, you must have built, a really strong team around you that have helped you. So who are some of the key team ,embers?
Going through this process that you wanna make sure that you have a good line of communication, their experience and what they're doing. It's not their first time, right? Obviously, you have that background from, your parents and your family. But now as you build your team, helping other investors build their portfolios, who are the key team members?
That you always lean on and you're like, that, I need that person, I gotta call that. That's on, they're on speed dial. They're my fa five. Who are those? Who are those team members?
Natalie Cloutier: I love that question because it's such an important part of this business. First of all, a real estate lawyer. Get a good real estate lawyer, someone you can count on, someone who really wants to see you succeed. We've had, it was a family friend, but still he's amazing. And again, to this day, like he's always helping us out and he's on speed dial. And then the other person would be accountant or bookkeeper, somebody again, who has experience in multi-units, rentals and preferably construction.
If you're doing construction, because our guy does the same thing as us. He's about the same age and has the same amount of properties and He knows, and he like, as he's doing his stuff, he learns and then he like applies it to us, which is amazing. I love that guy and I tell him every time he gets us outta jams all the time and I'm like, dude, I love you so freaking much.
That's another one. A good realtor maybe. You can have a good realtor that's willing to, like our realtor keeps us on a list as soon as a property or a lot comes for sale I get the email right. He's always like on the lookout because like raw land, especially right now, this year it's impossible to find raw land.
Everybody's jumping on it as soon as it becomes on the market. Having a realtor who's really Willing to see you succeed and really wants to be there with you. So that's another key person. Appraiser. We had an amazing appraiser and he retired, and now I just started working with another appraiser, and I do not like her, and I'm switching to someone else as soon as I can.
It's just, that's another thing too, right? You're gonna change your key team members as you grow, and you're just gonna adapt. Try someone like I tried her. Don't like her, it's not working out. We're gonna finish what we're doing and then I'm going to someone else so it, that just happens. But, and then a good maybe like a good general maintenance contractor guy who can, especially when we're building, we're super busy. We don't have time to take on the maintenance calls from the rentals. So we have one or two people that we know we can rely on and send them out to do stuff.
Or even just to help us on site when Rob needs a hand. And then yeah, have your family and your friends. Make sure you've got someone in your corner that's supporting you because it gets rough, it gets tough. And it's good to have those people that kind of, that do believe in what you're doing. Cause a lot of people don't understand or don't believe. So make sure someone actually understands what you're doing and motivates you because you're gonna need that too.
Sarah Larbi: Absolutely. I think it's pretty cool that it sounds like your parents were supportive cuz they used to do it themselves and they were able to help you and that's huge, right? That you didn't have parents that said, oh my God, you're crazy. How were, how, what did your friends say? Were they, did they know you would always do this regardless just because of your background in school? Or do they have any comments about Oh my God, you're gonna lose.
Natalie Cloutier: I'm not sure friends. I don't really care what my friends think, so I don't like, I don't think I ever really paid attention to that chatter. No. I think people, at first we were like, cause we started we built our house and I was like, oh my God, cool. And then we built another property really?
Why? And then we built another one. Oh my God, again, what are you doing? And and then at the third one we're like, yeah, we're starting a business with this. And they're like, okay. But it, nobody really said anything. I think people just didn't understand the business model. , it's hard to explain cause we're not selling these properties, so it's not like you're a builders selling for a profit, we're keeping them.
It's difficult to explain. But no, most of my friends just thought it was really cool and they're just, they're, they think it's really awesome. I think if people did have an opinion of we do hear sometimes people saying oh, you're gonna. If the market crashes, everything going on, like you're gonna be the first one to lose everything and no, like we do our research, we're ready for a crash. But sure. Think what you want. I like that kind of comment cause it pushes me to be like watch me.
Sarah Larbi: Absolutely. And I do wanna say, you guys are really hands on, right? So you have, you're really hands on and you have a background, but let's just say somebody doesn't have the background that you. Can you share, like the stuff that you guys do because you do a lot like of work through those things and then if somebody wants to be more hands off and not do that, who do they need then to replace what you're doing or what Rob's doing in this situation?
Natalie Cloutier: When Rob and I started out, we did a lot of the stuff ourselves. So we did basically we subbed out for the big things. Excavation, concrete, foundation framing any of the big stuff we would sub out because we're not gonna deal with that. Also plumbing. I always recommend if you're not a plumber, get a plumber. Don't do the plumbing yourself because it's the one thing that always breaks or leaks.
You want a plumber that's gonna come and fix it under maintenance after a year under contract warranty. After a year. But my husband did do electrical. So in Ontario, you can do your own electricity if you're in your own property, if you get a proper permit. So we did electricity insulation, drywall, trim.
Kitchen install, we get our IKEA kitchens not these days, not with the lockdowns, but usually we did IKEA kitchens. Basically all the finishings after that. If you're looking to do to be more hands off, then chances are I just say people, if you can't do all the work yourselves and make sure you have the capital to back it up because you're gonna have to put on, put down a bigger down payment for us, like the way we do it now, we started hiring out more people because we do have more capital.
Rob can't do everything alone. Like we're building two fourplex at once right now. So we're all over the place and I'm pregnant, so I can't help him as much as I used to. So we started hiring out a lot more. We hired an electrician now and all that stuff. If you're gonna do it yourself though, yeah, just have the capital because then I don't know how you're gonna do it.
It's the only way, right? It's either you do it yourself and you save that money, or you have the capital to pay for those people to do it, because you wanna make sure that at the end of it, you still get to your 80% value, 80% of your value if it costs you more to build than your value, than your finished value than it's a failure to me.
Like it's not where a lot of people do that though. They just, they wanna buy for appreciation. Or they wanna build or whatever for appreciation. That's not me. I'm cash flow all the way. So it depends what your goal is, but we always make sure that we're below 80%, like 70 if we can. But sometimes we'll go to 80 if we can refi some, pull out some cash and put it into the next one. But yeah just make sure you got 80 at least.
Alfonso Salemi: I got a quick follow up and then I have a two part question. So the follow up question. Cause we, this is, our podcast, we have, amazing veterans that are building, doing, 30 builds and all, like someone like yourself. And we have maybe those of just hurting, maybe listening to this podcast for the first time, just trying to get into real estate and everywhere in between.
We always say, provide value, bring value to help go. Just, and it could be a yes or no, there's no right answer, but if someone wanted to start and learn about this building process and they came to you and provided value and said, Hey, I can help you go pick up permits from City Hall, or I can be on site to open up the container of the storage, would you invite someone like that to, to be part of your group or someone that wanted to learn?
Natalie Cloutier: Yes. If they can actually pull their weight, like they said, like we don't want somebody in our way that's gonna slow us down more. Cause we did have someone once that offered, but there was no experience and you can tell, just wasn't the type of person that we would've wanted to work with.
It would be if I offered that, I wanted to make sure they would be like having an employee and that person can take it. And do the work. Yeah, no, it's definitely, and I recommend that to people too. If you wanna learn how to build, I would say, go see those builders and be like, okay, I wanna learn how to build, can I work with you through a construction and you teach me and then, I'll work for free or whatever. And then after that, you'll be able to do it better yourself. So I recommend that to people all the time.
Alfonso Salemi: Absolutely right. It's like when you're a young kid coming outta school and trying to get your first job and you keep hearing you don't have any experience the only way you can get experience is getting a job, right?
This is a kind of a hybrid where you can actually help. So I just wanted to confirm that for all those listeners out there that's say, oh wait, look at, look at Natalie. She's so great. She's done 30 properties, she's built all this. How can I start guys? That's where you can start guys and gals.
That's where you guys can get your going. Okay. So now my two part question. At any point through these projects or properties. Have you ever sat there or you've been in a property or at any point going, oh my God, why am I doing this? And then the second part, have you ever walked out of a property or concluded a deal or now things are running smoothly and going, oh my God, I'm so happy. And maybe an example of each, if you can share with us.
Natalie Cloutier: Oh my God, you just described my rollercoaster life on a daily basis. Okay. So yes and yes, holy crap. Okay. It is, because that's the thing it gets to be really tough, especially when you're doing the work yourself. You're managing yourself. You're like, I'm do, I'm in the office. I'm doing a whole bunch of stuff. It's definitely a rollercoaster ride, but to give you an example, when we were building, it was our second rental property, so our third build, if you include our house, we were just about to start. We had gotten permit and I was already super discouraged.
Like it was just it had, it was a pain. We had a hiccup with the financing and we were stressed and I told my husband, I'm like, I wanna quit. I'm like, we're gonna let's sell this property with the permit, give it to someone else, like I'm done. And he was like, okay, it was winter.
He's okay, you know what? Let's just book a quick five day getaway to the Dominican Republic. Let's recharge. So that's what we did. And in that trip, like in the plane ride, he slipped me, the Rich Dad Poor Dad book. He's here, babe, read this. And I was like, I don't feel like reading. He's no, read this.
I read the book and the mental, this switch turned up in me and I was like, okay, we're doing this for the right reasons. We're on the right path. There's a reason why it's tough. Everybody else would be doing it if it was easy. So after that trip I was like, okay, let's do this. I got this.
Sometimes it happens all the time. I had another crap day today, and I know though that, that at the end of it, it's gonna be worth it and there's a reason why we're doing it. So it's just, you just have to have a really solid why? Why you're doing this and your goal, and then, yeah, go through the motion because you're gonna go through it, but you just gotta, that's why I said you have to have that team that's backing you up and motivating you.
Sarah Larbi: That is awesome. So one more question, and I think we're gonna get into light lightning round after. Just outta curiosity, how has real estate changed your lives, you and Rob since you started investing?
Natalie Cloutier: Rob was able to quit his nine to five at 25, so that was a huge deal. He's still working a lot because he's on site and he's managing, and sometimes he misses the nine to five.
He was able to, break free of that schedule. I would be able to do the same any time. Technically just that part of it. We're looking for the freedom of being able to do our own schedule and do what we want and we know we're on the right path for that.
With the real estate, plus we met a lot of people. We learned a lot. We grew up really fast. I feel like I'm 40 already have gray hairs, like I'm 40 . Nice beard . I just feel like but it as stressful as I talk and I say it, is it was still like a really cool experience. We got to open up a business and we just learned a whole lot and I don't regret it. I would start all over again the exact same way.
Alfonso Salemi: That's awesome. It, ma it makes me think of a saying that, life's journeys start at the edge of your comfort zones, right? And you guys have pushed yourself and built an amazing business helping so many others that not only are living in your properties a safe place for their families, but all your partners, investors yourselves that you've helped along the way as well too.
I think it's time for our lightning round. Natalie are you ready, For the lightning round?
Natalie Cloutier: Sure. Throw'em at me.
Sarah Larbi: All right, here we go. Four questions. Question number one, what is the best advice you have ever received from another investor or at a networking event?
Natalie Cloutier: Honestly, it is just I always say the hustle is good, and I've learned this through people. The hustle is good, but make sure that you take the time for yourself because you can, it's so easy to get caught up in the daily grind and just, working towards your goal and stuff.
I admire that, but If you don't take that break and you don't remember why you're doing it and take a step back in time for family, you're gonna burn out. You're gonna crash, and then it's gonna cost you more time to achieve your dreams. Yeah take the time, relax, chill, have a glass of wine.
Alfonso Salemi: Great advice. Absolutely. How many of you investors out there listening to this right now? Start your days, 7, 8, 9 in the morning, whatever time, and are completely bombarded the whole day, and you look up and it's four o'clock, five o'clock, six o'clock at night, and you're like, where did the day go?
Schedule that time for your self-care throughout your life, throughout your day, your weeks and all that. Okay? Question number two, what is your favorite resource for real estate investing?
Natalie Cloutier: Like a learning, you mean?
Alfonso Salemi: Any resource that could be anything.
Natalie Cloutier: To me, books. I love to read, I love podcasts too, but I'm very visual. So I have to watch the podcast if I'm listening. I don't always get everything. So I love to read. I'll get lost in a book. And there's a few books that really helped me out in my journey. So for me, that's my number one go-to if I'm looking for something.
Alfonso Salemi: Can you share those books?
Natalie Cloutier: Rich Dad Poor Dad, of course, that's the classic, the yellow book, the Brandon Turner, the book on managing rental properties. That one was a huge plus for me because I basically based my entire rental management process on that book. The other one was, it's a Canadian book.
It's the what is it called? It's a long title. I always forget. It's written by Don Campbell, and it's the Real Estate. He probably has it on his shelf. The real estate Cycle, the Canadian Real secrets to the Canadian real Estate cycle.
Alfonso Salemi: A little blue book.
Natalie Cloutier: Yes. I haven't seen, I learned a lot from that book. Especially for anyone who's who's worried about a market crash or something happening in the future. Pick up that book. You'll learn a lot.
Sarah Larbi: Absolutely. It's a great book to reread as well so that even every five, it doesn't have to be five years, but every few years as we're always entering it into different cycles. Yep. Awesome. Question number three, Natalie, what is the one attribute in your opinion that has made you so successful?
Natalie Cloutier: Super stubborn and hardheaded. I will not give up and I'm gonna find a way to make it happen. My husband's the same way. He's actually worse than I am, so it helps, just not wanting to give up and being too proud to say it didn't work.
Alfonso Salemi: I love it for everybody out there. It's not over till I win. If I don't win, it's not over. That's how it goes. But Alright. Last question of the lightning round. On a typical Sunday morning, what are you up to? What are you doing?
Natalie Cloutier: Ideally, if it's nice outside, I am working in the backyard. Just hanging out with my husband and my sister and my, her family is not too far away so we can walk over and hang out, have a drink with them. Just something quiet and relaxing and not real estate related, which is very rare for me.
Sarah Larbi: Very nice. Sounds good. Thanks for playing the lightning round. Natalie, where can our REITE club community, our members, reach out to you if they wanted to connect with you and find.
Natalie Cloutier: Instagram is the best place to reach me. My handle is @thenewBeltcouple.
Alfonso Salemi: Wonderful. Awesome. Thank you so much for your time for being an amazing guest. So much information all packed in there. Definitely gonna have to have you back in the future. But for now, are there any last words of advice that you'd like to share with the REITE Club community?
Natalie Cloutier: No, I think I'm advised out.
Sarah Larbi: That's a first. Really, I love the answer. It's just authentic. Thank you, Natalie being on the show. That was awesome.
Natalie Cloutier: Thanks guys.
Sarah Larbi: She's awesome. You know what, Natalie has probably the best energy of, I would say, anyone I've ever met. She's just so positive. She's, so helpful and humble and just awesome all around. Like I actually haven't met her in real life, but, I already feel like we're friends and like we can hang out and have a glass of wine when everything is back to normal.
She's got an inspirational story. They started when they were 20 years, 21 years old. They're 28 now, pretty much, living the dream so early on and being able to give back and share her knowledge in the stuff that she's learned. That is just amazing. We'll have to have her come back and, each time I talk to her like so much content and information that she provides. Natalie, if you're listening to this, thank you so much.
Natalie Cloutier: You are just awesome.
Alfonso Salemi: Absolutely. Couldn't say it better myself, Sarah, and that's what the REITE Club community is all about. If you got some inspiration for Natalie, if you got some information from Natalie, some knowhow, or just maybe a couple lasts, let us know.
Share a review, write a review, share us with your friends. Get on the REITE club community. Get the info on there. We have our events page, our forums, podcast, blogs, all of our right partners and service director. You heard Natalie mentioned how important the team is. So if you're looking to build that team, that's where you should start.
Really start there. Find some of the best professionals that have been vetted, that have worked with professionals and how Sarah always says they're investors as well. So they're doing this shoulder to shoulder alongside you, not just telling you what to. They're actually taking their own advice and doing it themselves.
Really great combo. Love doing these podcasts. Like I said in the podcast, your, the journey starts when you get to the edge of your comfort zone. And I can't thank you enough, Sarah, for getting me outta my comfort zone. Keep doing these podcasts. Keep improving more. And from the REITE club, what do we always say?
Sarah Larbi: We say, come grow with us.
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