Growing a successful real estate investing business takes a lot more than a 4-hour work week. In fact in this podcast episode guest, Lena Guirguis shared "When you come to terms with there is no work-life balance, it becomes a lot easier to create a balance that works for you."
This philosophy, along with an anything is possible attitude and determination has helped Lena and her husband build several multi-million dollar businesses in real estate. Growing up as older children of immigrants they saw the inequitable way their parents were treated and were determined to not have that happen to them.
Lena: We just grew very quickly in that first kind of three or four years. We almost went bankrupt because everything was a gutted fix it to be able to rerent it situation.
And we didn't have a lot of money. So when the money runs out, what do you do? Tenants aren't paying rent units are vacant. So we almost went bankrupt.
Laurel: Welcome everyone to The REITE Club podcast, where we talk about all kinds of things about real estate investing and other things actually. I'm Laurel Simmons I'm a co-founder of the REITE Club and I'm joined here by Daniel St Jean my life partner, my husband and my business partner and another co-founder of the REITE Club. So hi Daniel. Say hello.
Daniel: Hello, everybody welcome.
Laurel: Yeah. So we just finished interviewing Lena Guirguis who Daniel and I have known for quite a few years, actually. Before we moved to here Niagara on the lake, we got to know Lena in Ottawa. And she's a really interesting story.
Daniel, what was the one thing in this interview that really caught your attention?
Daniel: What caught my attention is that a lot of the people listening to these podcasts work as couples and Lena and her husband have managed to survive 18 years of doing business together. And she gives some really good tips on how they did that. So I thought that was really interesting.
Laurel: And I think, I don't know whether she said, or maybe I just thought it and she said I didn't, I haven't killed him yet. But maybe that's what I was thinking. I don't know. anyway . Like Lena is so lively and she's got great tips and tricks, and even just talking about, surviving COVID and how it boosted her business.
It really helped focus. So it's really interesting. Like COVID, wasn't all bad for a lot of people. It really changed things in some fundamental ways. So before we go to the interview, I just wanna ask people to rate our podcast. If you have the chance go on to any of the channels that you use, whether it's Apple or Spotify or anything and give us a rating because that will help us reach other people who are interested in real estate investing. And also don't forget, go to TheREITEClub.com and sign up. It's free. We have lots of great content there for you. So Daniel, should we go to the interview now?
Daniel: Let's go talk with Lena.
Laurel: Hi, Lena! Welcome to The REITE Club podcast. It's been such a long time. We were just talking about that before we started recording that oh my goodness, so much has happened and it's been a couple years before we've seen a lot of people and it's just like amazing to have you here.
So let's get right into it.
Lena: Thank you. Thank you, Laurel and Daniel, thank you for having me. It's been so long. Oh my goodness. And you're right oh, what a couple of years, huh?
Laurel: No kidding. So speaking of what, a couple of years what have you been really focusing on the last two years?
Lena: So lucky me, my daughter started junior kindergarten, the September of 2020.
So I spent the majority of 2020 and 2021 doing junior kindergarten online in my office. And it was horrible, like absolutely horrible. And one sneeze she's home for two weeks. Like life has been absolute hell from that perspective. Up until probably March break ended and they decided COVID doesn't exist anymore. Now magically, it's all nobody cares. So it's been hard. It's been a very difficult balance because we've been very busy. We have a property management company and we were so busy the minute Doug Ford said don't pay rent, like our management company exploded.
I've been trying not to lose my hair. I drink a little bit more than I did. My daughter's healthy. I'm healthy. We're all. Okay. So we're doing good. It's been hard.
Laurel: Isn't it amazing how one sneeze can disrupt a business for weeks?
Lena: Yeah. Oh, it's so bad. Who would've thought that we would be in this situation? And who would've thought that so many people would take advantage. I don't know how you guys have seen it, but for us, the trades people, our contractors, the cleaners, everybody, all of a sudden, COVID sorry, I've got a sniffle. I can't come. And a month things are getting pushed back and you're looking this going really supply chain issues. And it's one of those. Okay. If you don't wanna do it, you say so we don't need to waste any more time here. It's been it's nuts. It's unreal what they're doing.
Laurel: So in terms of your business though, you said it did explode what with everybody I'm sure wanting more property management services. So how did you handle that what did you do?
Lena: So I'm very fortunate. So I run my businesses with my husband and he is an engineer who is very technically savvy. So even before COVID, he had created a whole bunch of systems just to automate our businesses.
So when COVID hit that automation portion of things was already in place and we, obviously following guidelines, started to push it that way. So vacancies things like this , everything was done in advance. Like I wouldn't show you a unit until you had a preapproved application. So my time was suddenly much better managed because I wasn't wasting time with tire kickers or, unqualified individuals and nobody gave us pushback. Because, government said we shouldn't be near one another. So this is the safest way for all of us. And now it's just become team. So even though we did explode, we had so much less pushback from the standpoint of getting everything done in the beginning so that I don't waste my time driving or meeting or talking that, my time it's the same amount of time invested, but I'm producing 2, 3, 4 times the amount of results, right? Like we filled 47 vacancies just from April to December of 2020. It was fun.
Daniel: How did you come to real estate investing? What's your journey? How did you get started?
Lena: Oh, geez. So that husband I spoke of in 2004, walked into a fitness club that I was managing. So before real estate, my whole focus, I was studying kinesiology. I was gonna be a sports injury therapist, cuz I'm like, I'm a lifelong athlete.
And he walked into a gym that I was managing. He wanted to buy a membership. I wasn't very nice to him cause that's just who I am. I shouldn't say it like that, but I wasn't nice to him. He was very like full of himself and I was like, I'm gonna put him in his place. And we started talking, he had just been laid off from his engineering job and watched a late night infomercial and decided he was gonna be the next Donald Trump and asked if I would be willing to help him from a sales perspective.
Fast forward. That was January, June we bought our first triplex together and, 18 years later here we are. So that's how we got started. Our kind of the reason why we, I think, mixed together and the reason why I chose to actually go into this business with this random weirdo who asked me to, join a business I didn't understand anything about, so clearly I am an immigrant. I'm not, somebody who was born here, raised here. My parents came here in the eighties, fleeing the war in Iran. And my husband's family also immigrated when he was a little bit older. And, as the child of immigrants, unfortunately, especially back then, you generally found that people weren't treating your parents well.
Landlords weren't treating my parents well. In general, people were just not kind to my parents and my parents are very kind human beings. Our whole view was maybe we can be those people who can create a better environment in this landscape for people similar to our own parents who, are really good people, really hard working, really care for what it is.
And, give 'em a try, give 'em a chance, let them go. So we had that kind of mindset, which is why we went in the direction that we went. And, here we are.
Laurel: So you actually then started investing in real estate yourself at that point. So was it to provide some housing for people who needed it, obviously?
Lena: Yeah.
Laurel: Cause cuz there's a, there's your, story's a multi-stage story. You have the real estate investing side and then the property management side and also stillettos and hammer side. So there's a whole story arc there. Why don't we talk about that a little bit? Cause it's really cool. I was, I always like to hear those stories from people, so sure. You went from real estate investing to what?
Lena: Oh, geez. Like I said, I was in a completely different track. I was on a track to you know fitness and physiotherapy and all that fun and exciting stuff. I'm Iranian. So for us, you're a doctor, you're an engineer and that's the focus that you're at.
And I don't really fit that mold. My personality doesn't fit that mold and this opportunity was presented. So I was 21 when we started. I grew up in Scarborough and I grew up in a very kind of what we would say, a marginalized community. So we were lower income, obviously, my parents were both newcomers working, minimum wage jobs.
So I grew up in an area with a lot of colorful experiences. So at 21 years old this man who I barely know, he's not my husband, but at the time, I didn't know him decided that we're going off to somewhere called Cornwall. And we bought this triplex and, the people there were just, I don't know, what I knew was this particular property we're buying the people who own it are going bankrupt.
They have a property manager who's managing their property, but they're going bankrupt. So something doesn't jive. So we're not letting those people deal with this. I'll deal with it. That was my attitude. Like whatever. How hard can it be? Surprise. It's not actually very easy. But I became a self-managing investor.
So I took on this triplex we had, very colorful tenants who were in place. They weren't paying rent, they were damaging the units. We went through a lot of different things and because I was the person who was managing and I'm five feet tall, I weighed 110 pounds. And 18 years ago I looked probably 15.
So when I'm trying to speak to people, nobody is taking me seriously. Nobody wants to listen to what I have to say. So I started to take from what I saw in my childhood, for people who, needed to get what they wanted done and wanted to get their points across and I took this flavor with me in what it was that I was doing and very quickly earned reputation is like the crazy woman from Toronto. And it worked, I got rid of bad tenants. We were starting to attract good tenants. We were able to clean up our properties and once the properties were clean, people knew we were there on a regular basis and they knew we cared. We weren't absentee landlords, which Cornwell at the time was very well known for lots of investors from Ottawa and Montreal who just slumlords disappeared didn't come back.. So we started to attract a really good quality of tenant. And we bought the triplex and then we bought a couple duplexes and then we bought a fourplex and we just grew very quickly in that first kind of three or four years. We almost went bankrupt because everything was a gutted fix it to be able to rerent it situation.
And we didn't have a lot of money. So when the money runs out, what do you do? Tenants aren't paying rent units are vacant. So we almost went bankrupt. We had a really good mortgage broker who was able to swing some financing for us, get us out of a hole. And we flew from there, but as we started to develop the systems for our own management company because now I'm self-managing, my tenants would leave and they would encounter self-managing landlords who were having difficulties and they would ask them to call me.
And now all of a sudden I have people calling me, asking me if I can help them. And now third party management started and it all was word of mouth. We've never really advertised. And the company, the management company itself started to grow. And I realized that there were a lot of things that would happen to me when I was dealing with realtors or mortgage brokers or contractors that wouldn't happen to my husband.
You're paying attention now we're networking. We're going to networking events and I'm paying attention to the landscape in these events. And I noticed a very similar trend. There are lots of women in the room. They're all quiet. They're not talking when they talk, they're getting shut down really quickly.
And they don't really seem to wanna continue to push the point across. And that's where Stillettos and hammers came. I decided that maybe it was time that we had an environment for women to be able to come in and network together and ask the questions that they need without feeling like they're being shut down.
And I'm not saying it's something that was being done intentionally. It was just personality wise, men are generally much more confident in everything that they do. A man has one, property that he has successfully flipped and he's up there telling the whole world, and he's confident about it. He knows he did a great job and a woman will do the same thing. And generally speaking, she's not gonna say anything about it. Cause she thinks she did a hundred things wrong. So when we created Stilettos and Hammers and we created this environment where women could come in and it was only women, my husband was the only man allowed.
It was amazing to hear the stories and to see this network of women suddenly helping one, another asking questions, growing and developing. And we went, so we started Stilettos and Hammers in 2013. I think it was. We're still growing. We're growing. I've got a group of women. We're flipping properties in the US with we've got a group in Ottawa.
We've got a group in Toronto. We've got a group up north . We did a lot of online stuff during COVID and we're about to start back with that whole online to in person transition in September. But it's beautiful when you have a group of women who are there and they're comfortable to ask the questions and because we're women I find a lot of the time they're a little bit more receptive to the kind of work on one's self before jumping into this business and looking at ways of kind of self-improving and self-reflection before they go into business, which I think is very important. If you are not a hundred percent there and you don't know why you're doing what you're doing in real estate, especially, it's very hard to keep at it because it gets hard and it's scary.
And sometimes you have no money in the bank and you don't know how you're going to eat. And if you don't have that strong enough buy and that strong enough understanding, like you're gonna quit. And you're gonna quit right before it gets really good.
Daniel: And the thing too is that if you make a mistake in buying shoes while it's only 60 bucks, but if you make a mistake in real estate investing could cost you half a million. So, yeah.
Lena: What kinda shoes are you buying?
Daniel: oh, okay. Fine. I know I'm so at the end there, we're gonna be asking you how people can contact you, but just in case we forget. Where do people, where do ladies, where do women go to, to find out more about Stilettos and Hammers?
Lena: At stilettosandhammers.com.
Daniel: Okay. That's easy stilettosandhammers.com.
So Laurel and I are a couple and we are in business in real estate and some days are amazing. And some days there are a little bit of discussion, but you have been like 2004, 2008. So to 18 years and the past 10 years working as a couple. So how is that going? And what did you do to make it happen?
Lena: I get that question a lot, actually. I don't personally recommend that, if you have the option to work together as a couple, and you have the option to do your own thing, maybe do your own thing. But we don't. We started together and for 10 years now, it's been full time together and it's hard.
It's hard to separate kind of business from personal because everything is intertwined, right? Your personal life is dependent on this business. We do this full time, the incomes that's generated. So things get discussed and sometimes things get heated and I honestly believe that as long as you love each other more than you hate each other. Cause there will be days where you feel like you hate each other and that's okay. Totally normal.
But as long as you love each other more than you hate each other, you'll find a way. For us we found that one of the best ways to limit the amount of dislike for one another was to have clear boundaries as to who did what, like who's responsible for what?
In that section of the business, I'm the boss. So what I say goes, and in this section of the business, you are the boss so what you say goes, but, we make sure that when we're crossing and intermingling, there is that understanding of, okay, here you are in charge here, I'm in charge and we're gonna respect one another's opinions.
And if we're ever in a situation where we don't agree, for us, It turns into kind of a, like a fast fire game of okay. Pros and cons you go, and whoever runs out of the pros first loses we'll go with she, or he has more pros but it's hard. It's not an easy feat and it's difficult. But you've gotta have those boundaries. You have to know when and who is in charge of what.
Laurel: Yeah, it's really interesting because I do think that being a married couple don't even have to be married, whatever it, if you're a life unit, let's put it that way. Oh. A life unit. That does not sound like new agey. There are other layers that you deal with in, the business relationship, but, so what do you do though? Because , after all is said and done, and after the business is over, you're still a couple. You still, you have a child, you have a family. How do you take care of yourself? Because I know that there are people out there who are in the same situation who are going. Yeah. And I'm thinking about it, but how what do I do to make sure that I take care of myself and my husband or my wife takes care of myself and what do I do? What do you do?
Lena: So to be honest the first thing that I would say is those who seek work life balance. Stop. It does not exist, especially in this business or as an entrepreneur. So just get over it. It's a unicorn. It doesn't exist. And when you come to terms with there is no work life balance, it becomes a lot easier.
To create a balance that works for you. So , we own a, a construction company as well so we do commercial construction. We build, warehouses and things like that. So my husband runs that and when a new site is starting and you're going off and everybody's being mobilized, he's not home for three or four days, and it's just me running our business, that I already run plus the child and the house.
And it's a lot. What I do is I block off calendar times and in the calendar, regardless of whether or not he knows of it, or he doesn't know of it, I block off time. And that times for the three of us to do one thing, anything that it might be, that's just us. And it's no phones, no emails, no phone calls for that kind of three hour block.
And we're realistic. I'm not planning a whole day because it's not gonna happen. But we're gonna plan three hours, four hours at a time. And like in the summer it might get a four hour chunk at Canada's Wonderland in the winter we might, just decide that it's gonna be at home movie and we're gonna do some sort of fun I don't know, we'll bake something or we'll do something where we're getting messy and we involve Aria, our daughter, obviously, sometimes we let her choose the activity, but we have that at least once a week. I don't live in a world where I think that I'm gonna be able to go off on date nights with my husband every week.
Plus I'm gonna be able to go off on vacations twice a year. Like our lifestyle doesn't allow for that. It doesn't mean that it's not doable. Of course it is, but it's not for our lifestyle and where we're at today. So I don't stress myself. I look at what works for us. And then at least we're aiming for successful, completion.
Laurel: And I am just gonna jump in here and say I absolutely 100%, actually 1000% agree with you that you just gotta dump the work life paradigm or work life balance idea. Yeah. Like. When I hear people talk about that. I just I, my, my eyes roll so hard in my head as one, they don't fall out because there is no such thing. There never has been such a thing and there never will be such a thing. Yeah. So just strike that phrase, that idea, that concept from your mind. What I do talk about though is about harmony because you can be, have a much more harmonious life. If you do all those things you were talking about, right?
Lena: Yeah, you're right. It's a great, it's actually a great way to put it is harmonious a hundred percent when they vibrate at the same kind of frequency or complement frequencies, it's not colliding. And it just, it feels good, right? It just feels good. And if all outs fails, wine. Just gonna say,
Laurel: okay.
Lena: All else fail, wine. .
Laurel: Yeah, . I agree. 100% all else. Actually, I shouldn't do this, but I'm gonna do it anyway. So I'm just gonna hold up a bottle of wine. It's not open. And for those of you who are not watching, I am holding up a bottle of wine, but yes, it's out on the countertop, right?
Lena: Just in case. Cause there are days. I'm not gonna lie to, like right now, summertime, I live really close to Canada's Wonderland. Sometimes I'll drop my daughter off to school and I'll go to Wonderland. I'll ride three of the massive, like the big roller coasters, of get everything outta my system and then start working for the day. Cuz you just need that little bit. Reset,
Daniel: Lena, what's next? What do the next five years? Or if you have a plan for five years or whatever, what does it look like? Where are you going with where you are right now?
Lena: So right now we're looking at land. So my big goal for it's a 10 year plan. It's not a five year plan, but the goal is I wanna build subdivision a little further north of where I'm at. And I wanna create a subdivision that is going to take a little bit of the good and a little bit of the missing and put it all together. We live in an area, we have really good schools, but in terms of housing, things are not necessarily affordable for the majority, right?
So you've got kids who have access to really great schools, and then you go into the areas that are more accessible and the schools aren't so great.
So my hope is to find land. We're looking at land right now, and to be able to develop some sort of a subdivision that encapsulates , nicer homes with some starter homes and, with seniors residence in the center.
So it's a whole new concept of intergenerational living, where people can all have independent space for whatever phase of life they're in, but they're close enough where they still have that support. So that's my 10 year plan. And it'll happen is, it will, it might take 15, but I'm okay with that. That's really where we're headed.
Laurel: Wow. That's really cool. Like I think that's A it's inspiring and B it so desperately needed. It is so desperately needed out there. I'm so tired of seeing these developments where there's no thought , to the community, right? Where we have the different generations and the different the different lifestyles, because it just adds such a wealth to each and every person's life.
Like living next door to people who are two generations away, whether it's younger or older or there's just so much you can learn and share. Yeah. It makes her a really, really wonderful lifestyle.
Lena: I agree. I agree. And I think for me, especially, I grew up in an area that was not so great. And I went to the schools that were not so great. And migrated up into the areas that were really great. You see that big gap and you're not gonna be able to close that entire gap, but you are or at least I believe, I genuinely believe that we can create a situation where the first generation doesn't have to move into the basements of their children in order to be able to live.
And those children don't have to sacrifice in 400 square foot condos. And, like there, there has to be somewhere in the middle. There has to be somewhere in the middle where we can all coexist and still have access to the things that will help that next generation, succeed, cuz they're gonna be taking care of us. So like we need to make sure that they are equipped and they're able cuz otherwise we will suffer cuz we'll be the old ones.
Laurel: Yes, that's right. Absolutely.
Lena, now we're gonna jump into the lightning round question and I'm gonna start off with a question and it's again, all you have to do is just a quick answer.
So the Lena of today, if you were talking to the Lena of 18 years ago, what's the one piece of advice you would give yourself?
Lena: Trust yourself. You are a very smart cookie.
Laurel: Good for you. That's a great one.
Daniel: My question is what is the best business advice you've ever received from any source?
Lena: Oh man, that is a good one. The best business advice that I've actually received, I think is, do not take the naysayers personally, because everything that they're telling you, you can't do is coming out of a place of love for you and a fear from their own experiences.
Daniel: I find that interesting, cuz I just finished reading a book called this won't work and it's from the founder of Netflix and the story of, yeah.
He heard that about 15 times as he was starting and we know where Netflix is today, yep. All right. I'll ask the next one too. And then Laurel will finish. So what is the key attribute that has made you successful in your opinion?
Lena: My key attribute. Other than like absolute tenaciousness I genuinely do not believe that there is anything in this world that cannot be done.
Rules are there because there are loopholes. That's why lawyers have jobs. So find those loopholes and you are gonna be able to do whatever you need to do within the bounds of what's allowed. And I think that's why we've managed to go to where we are is cuz I'm always looking for that loophole. That'll let me get what I want without getting me into trouble.
Laurel: That makes a lot of sense. And I can tell you're really smart. Like man, yourself and that's really good. Okay. Last question. What's the most important system you've set up and so if you had to just pick one system, what would it be?
Lena: So our management system for the actual management of our properties is without a doubt, the most important, because it keeps all of the admin, the administrative stuff. So the bills that need to get paid, the work orders that need to get done, the leases that are coming due, the increases that are coming, it's all in there it's automated, it's available no matter where it is that I go, like any document that I need. And I think that has saved me more times than I can count, especially in the last two years when people, tenants have become very bold. And they like to challenge a lot of what you say.
And I think it's because a lot of people are disorganized, they're overwhelmed. So when you're able to spit documents back at them in emails within two minutes, It very quickly shifts the balance back into your control. The admin will kill you.
Daniel: All right. We've talked all about business. I wanna finish with something light.
So Lena, can you share with us something funny or cute or interesting about you that most people would be surprised to hear?
Lena: So I play five instruments. I played the piano, the flute, the clarinet, the violin, and the cello. And I started playing cello when I was in the third grade, I was like maybe two and a half feet tall and weighed 30 pounds and the cello was twice the size that I was and I was driving it like through the, hauled behind me, everywhere that I was going. But yeah, I played five instrument. I don't think anybody expects that of me. Just, I'm strange.
Laurel: That's amazing. Congratulations. Yeah, but the one question we didn't ask is, are you good on all of them?
Lena: No. I have a concert pianist for a cousin, like she's world renowned. When you compare to her, none of us play well, I did pretty good. I can hold my own and I have moments, but I was really good when I played. I'm not so great now it's been a long.
Laurel: Oh, good for you though. So Lena, where again where can people reach you?
Lena: They can, stilettosandhammers.com. Contact us. You can call me if you really want or text me is probably better. 6475573401. That's probably the easiest is just to shoot me off a text. And just say, hi, this is who I am, and this is where I found you, otherwise I will ignore you.
Laurel: We'll put that in the show notes so people can, will be yeah.
Lena: But that's the best way for me, honestly, I spend a lot of time driving a lot of time driving.
Laurel: Okay. Thank you so very much. It was wonderful.
Lena: Thank you guys.
Daniel: Yes.
Lena: Okay. It was so good to see you guys too. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me and for having me.
Laurel: You're welcome.
Lena: I hope , your network enjoys our conversation.
Daniel: Thank you. We'll see you soon.
Laurel: Bye.
So Daniel, wow. She's a powerhouse, isn't she?
Daniel: Yes. And what's interesting about that is that she's right. I think she's five foot, two, 105 pounds or something like that. So you wouldn't know when she walks into a room that she can displace that much That just can be that impressive in her business. But yeah she's a big player for a little person.
Laurel: She's got a lot of energy and she really knows what she's talking about. It's obvious she's passionate about it and yeah, go check out her website and see what she's doing because Lena's a great person and she's got lots of great ideas and lots of great contacts.
So with that we will say goodbye, and please join us for our next podcast recording here at The REITE Club bye for now.
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