Daniel St Jean: Good afternoon, Victoria. We have somebody really special today, and the reason why I say special because you know him very well for a reason that we will probably find out later in the interview. Aren't you happy to be here with Sandro?
Victoria Cluney: I'm very happy. Think every single time that I'm in Sandro's presence and I hear him speak, I just feel uplifted and energized and motivated. He's such an inspiration and I can attest that he is like this all the time.
Daniel St Jean: We both, you and I were sitting in a room in Ottawa recently, and we saw him present to people. He's just like a bundle of joy, but a bundle of joy. Who knows what he's talking about. So this is cool. All right, let's go and interview Sandro. Let's do it. Hello everybody and welcome to another great episode of our podcast and as a co-host today of course, we have Victoria, and our guest today is Sandro Ferreira.
Sandro Ferreira: Hello everybody. And I gotta say congratulations, you said very few people get my family name right away.
Daniel St Jean: I realize that this is probably a Portuguese name, which is very close to Spanish. Spanish and I'm French to start with, so it's easy for me. Don't try me with the German or the the Swedish name or something like that, because I'll mess them up.
Victoria Cluney: Then you don't wanna hear my middle name or my maiden name because they are both.
Daniel St Jean: Alright, then we'll stay away from that. Sandro is a Brazilian Canadian entrepreneur. He's an award-winning real estate investor. He's a certified coach and is a professional public speaker who uses his creative skills to find opportunities that most people ignore.
Sandro finally retired from his nine to five grind to become a full-time real estate investor, and he has recognized the indu in the industry for his creativity, tenacity, and mindset. And I'll come back to those three terms later on Sandro, because to me those are key, creativity, tenacity, and mindset.
Now since his decision to become a professional real estate investor, Sandro went from seven seven doors to 114 doors in his first year, and he is acquiring multi-family properties now across Canada, the US and Brazil. Sandro graduated in business and law and brings over two decades of experience in the field of sales, customer experience, and coaching and business development. Welcome, Sandro.
Sandro Ferreira: Wow. Thank you very much. Thank you for the flawless introduction, . I am honored to be here with you guys.
Daniel St Jean: Victoria, why don't we find out from our friend here about his history or story or background?
Victoria Cluney: Sandro, why don't you take us away from, when you came to Canada and what made you decide that you wanted to get into real estate investing?
Sandro Ferreira: Just gonna go back a little bit cause I grew up as I mentioned in Brazil and I just want you guys to imagine the hood. Imagine you're going to a place where they have the hood, they have the neighborhood that you don't go by yourself in the evenings. If you're not from there. So keep driving a little deeper.
That's the type of neighborhood that I grew up in. You have no hope. But since young age, I always been the type of person that I was questioning. Quo growing up in a very strong religious family where there's a lot of rules and you could the why not and you can't. But then I would come back and say, why?
Oh, because, and then when they didn't have an answer, meaning my parents, they would blame on the religion, say, this is a sin, but it never made sense to me. , so I realized that the only way to change the reality was challenging. not challenging the author of my parents, but challenging the truth that I knew at that point.
Anyways, fast forward when I was 16 years old, I got a scholarship to do my high school in the US fully covered. And my mom, cause I was a minor, she did not sign up and I was like devastated. It's mom, this is the opportunity of my life. Why you are not signing. You are my responsibility and as far as you are my responsibility, you do what I tell you to do,
This is fair, but just so you know, when I am the owner of my own nose, it's a very typical Brazilian expression. I will move away from. Years passed and then finally 2010, 2006 came along and I was invited to go to see presentation about immigration in Canada. Selling love cause they sell very well. The immigration I prepared went back to school. That's why I went back. I was already at that point to graduated in law. But in Brazil, status means a lot. . So I was at that point working as a lawyer. , living in an upscale neighborhood. I lived in a shoe box but I had address.
When people ask where you live, oh, I live such place, and I met a few Canadians and nobody cared that I was a lawyer or in the business. The questions was like, what do you like? What are your interests? And things like that immigrated to Canada in 2010. And at that point I look to myself and I say, oh wow, I am getting old. Being a lawyer in Brazil means nothing in Canada. . And I'm already 34 years old, meaning I have to find a way to secure my retirement and also, I realized that for people who are, most people that I knew at that point born here, they either have their parents that they would leave them something or they had already the friends from school or university and I had nothing.
I came here with the money for a month and then I came across the For Rich dad for that book. Wow. And I saw, oh my goodness, real estate. Looks like is one of the ways to change your financial outcome despite your upbringings, your origin, the color of our IT skin is not like, what? So then I decided I'm gonna buy a property and then I went to the bank.
At this point, guess keep in mind I was here for about 10. . I went to the bank and they of course said, no way you just got here . We don't have history. We don't have a credit score. He said, wow, but I already have a credit card. No. And then I came across a mortgage broker that was also an immigrant from Scotia Bank, said, actually Sandro, we have a program for newcomers.
You can find the house. I found the condo. I bought a condo. But the challenge was, , you need the money for the do payment. And I didn't have the money for the do payment, but I was saving money aside to pay my taxes at the end of the year. And turns out the money I set aside for my taxes was exactly the amount for the down payment
I didn't know better, so then I thought, , I'm gonna use this money to do the I payment and then I call CRA afterwards to say, I don't have the money . That's exactly what I did. But it's funny that when I was talking to my accountant afterwards, she said, you can't do this well, too late. I worried about the condo.
And then the CRA, they split the payment so I could pay my taxes. This is why I say that my first property was financed by the CRA. That's pretty creative. I'd say and that's how my journey started.
Daniel St Jean: Wow that was in what year again? Sandro?
Sandro Ferreira: 2010.
Daniel St Jean: So, we're talking 12 years ago. That was your first, and why did you buy that condo?
Sandro Ferreira: Well, because I realized that even though I went to the bank and they said, you can buy a house up to 350,000 back in 2010, but then my mindset was I'm gonna buy a property that is half of this price. because if something goes wrong and I have to flip burgers at McDonald's, I should be able to service the mortgage.
That was the mindset, right? Yeah. Yeah. And then I bought a condo was like $150,000. The monthly payment was like $600 for the mortgage. So then for me it was a no-brainer and I didn't know any better. Like I had no educational incomes to real estate. I didn't know any strategies. I just knew what I saw in the books and all the banks, meaning the big five, they tell.
So then the condo below the one that I was living, so on the same condom menu, came for sale, said, oh, I'm gonna buy this one. Cause then I thought, I'm gonna buy, I don't know, 10 condos, and then you give me $300 cash flow, eat, oh, I have an extra income. Bought the condo as well. And then, . Now I see 2016 coming around.
And I kept every year going back to the bank, I wanna buy another property. Not yet. You don't qualify. Don't qualify. So then I thought if I don't qualify by myself, I should put a group of friends together. And then you buy a property together. And then 2016, we bought a property near to a Wonking College in Ottawa to rent the rooms for students.
Especially because a lot of Brazilian students, they were coming to a won. We bought the property in 2016, did all the renovations. 2017, we got our first tenant, 2017, 2018, amazingly well, and then the pandemic hit. For a lot of people, the pandemic was a course for me in my career. I was a real estate investor because at that point I saw myself looking for alternatives to keep, first of all, bringing money home to feed my family.
And second of all, an opportunity to pivot. Then my wife, she turned to me. It's like enough reading Money Sense Magazine and listening to Robert podcast, you gotta go find education, go find yourself a mentor.
Otherwise, I will not support you in buying any other properties. So then 20 and 19 I met a mentor. I started my program with him in 2020. and then when I graduated in 2021 was seven doors later and 114 doors actually.
That's exactly what happened. Now what changed was a few things. One, now I have access not just for education, but to a whole network of individuals taking massive. I didn't know about B lenders, C lenders, private money mixed. I had no idea. So I was literally giving a candy to a child.
Victoria Cluney: Absolutely. I think like you're making a great point there of being surrounded by action takers, people that you know are doing it, and it normalizes the behavior where in the outside world of real estate this type of behavior, this type of investing can be very intimidating, but when you are surrounded by people that are doing these massive deals, it ultimately becomes normal. And it's a great point you're making.
Daniel St Jean: And Sandro, I wanna go back here before we continue with with how you are, where you are today on those three words that we mentioned earlier. So tell us about your mindset. First of all, yes we heard why you Discovered real estate investing, but then you got turn, you got turned down, and then you got turned down, and then you got turned down, and then I think you got turned down again. What was your mindset and actually just go to tenacity into keep on going and look where we are now.
Sandro Ferreira: Yes. It's very important because I kept in my mind every time in my life that somebody tells me that I can't do something. I. If somebody was able to accomplish this, no matter who, what the person was, and it doesn't matter their circumstances, I will push myself to the limit of my capacity to see if I can do it as well.
It's almost that when somebody comes and tells me, you can't do that, I get into attack mode. And especially cause of my happy brings. , Sandro, you are black, you should be content. This is not your place. Be a lawyer. Why go be as a soccer player? Go be a, this stereotype.
So then for me was I literally grew up in the mindset. I will prove you wrong. But one thing say is easy to say, the other things actually do. And then early on in my life, I realized that you become the average of the five people that you spend most of your time with. And every time to this day, when I get in a place that people say, oh, you are the man.
Sandro's the guy. I'm in the wrong room. I need to level up again because I never want to be the smartest guy in the room. So then I keep pushing myself, and the mindset thing is so important. Because when you think about real estate, I bought my first property $150,000, and then I closed the transaction.
Recently there was 2.5 million, and then I decided to put an offer on a 28 million portfolio. And people, even in other investors around me, they'll ask me, but how are you gonna find the money? And it's like, guys, the only difference is the comma in the number of zeros , because the challenges are the same, the due diligence.
The discovery cost is exactly the same. And so I frame myself with a way of thinking and then to support that Daniel Daniel, I read a lot. So I am this year. So we are in December already, and I read read 80 books this year and I have 20 books to read by the end of the year. So this is what keeps. Going and when I'm feeling down, I circle back to some books that will give me that sparkle that I need to keep moving.
Daniel St Jean: And that's a really good strategy certainly reading books. And by the way, so you've had a few people who told you this won't work right? When you were getting into a mistake.
Yes, put this book. And I'm sharing that too with the the listeners put this book on your list. It's called The Will Never Work. So it's I just finished reading it about a month ago. One of the best books I've read, it's about a guy who started a company way back and he grew it a little bit and then he went to to Amazon and they said, no, this is never gonna work.
And then you went to Blockbuster and they said, no, this is never gonna work. And by the way, the name of that company is Netflix. Woo. Love it. And you gotta read that book because of course now you know the end. But as you're reading it through the years, how many people told them, not gonna work, never gonna work. Wasting your time, this is not gonna work.
Victoria Cluney: I'll have to insert a spoiler alert in this . Sandro, you're so inspiring and especially if you come from buying condos to then, starting a joint venture partnership with student rentals, and now what kind of deals are you working on today?
Sandro Ferreira: Yes, I just finished the book recently that was wrote written by Gary Keller. He's the guy that created Keller Williams. And he talks about the one thing. So choose the one thing that is set you apart from the pack. So what I realized so I'm part of a community, right? In this community there's a hype.
If you think about when you meet somebody for the first time, usually like in a social circle, usually one of the first questions is so what do you do for a living? And I realize that in the community that I'm part of, the question is, so how many doors you have ? But then it's not about the numbers of doors, it's what is your why?
What is your strategy? So then I saw what is happening, and then I have the co-living strategy that I've been using because going back to when I bought the student housing pandemic happened, all my tenants, they disappeared. Cause they were out or walking students. So now I'm with a house in my hands with a high mortgage.
What do I do? Time to pivot, time to get creative. So then I changed my model, my business model. Wow. I changed my business model to co-living for e young professionals. So I choose a niche. Young professionals. . And then I choose a sub niche, new immigrants. And then on the sub niche, I specialized in one nationality, Brazilians.
Why? Wow, that's obvious. As Brazilian is speaking their language, understanding how the system works back home is much easier for me to vet my tenants and then doing that way, like I run the co-living space as nobody else in the city. I don't know other places, but in the city I am the best in this strategy.
So much so that I decided, cause again, somebody comes to me, oh, you can't do this way, you're not gonna find the property this way. So then what I'm doing now, I bought a lot on Baseline Road on the L R T Road and I am building a purpose built co-living property There. So now I can charge top dollar for my public for my niche market.
And then and then of course with the challenge of high interest rates, I went all the way to Edmonton and I did a training with the best in the industry when it comes to agreement for sale. So right now, and that I come. and I heard from someone that I really respect is very well known in the industry, and that person turned to me and said, you will not be able to do agreement for sales in Ontario because it's not gonna work.
So then I went and I not just did one, but I closed two amazing deals using that strategy and this is what I'm doing, co-living and agreement for sale and then developing my, my, my own project. So that's what I'm specializing.
Daniel St Jean: So obviously we're back to the third word that we mentioned earlier, creativity?
Sandro Ferreira: Yes.
Daniel St Jean: Victoria, do you have any other question related to real estate and is career so far? Before we go into the lightning round, I'll do a lot of the lightning round question. All have to do with this journey. But before we go to that, do you have an idea?
Victoria Cluney: I do. I have so many, but I'll pick my final one. I think that the listeners would really appreciate to hear, because when you think about somebody who has 114 doors, you're making offers and deals and coaching and everything that you're doing, how do you manage your time with everything.
Sandro Ferreira: First thing, another thing, through reading and meeting people that they are where I wanna be. I became the prince. I'm not gonna say the king, but I became the prince of leverage. After meeting Daniel, now I have six things that I leverage. Cause before I used to say three, and then I met Daniel.
Now, other people's time, other people's money, other people's credit, other people's deals, other people's knowledge, other people's network. So managing my time is literally leveraging it. Everything that I can get anybody in entry level. To do it, I leverage. So then I concentrate in the tasks that really need my creativity to get done.
And that's having a team. Cause now I have a team as well to manage the pro project. For example, co-living is very hands-on. . So then what do I do? I do the fun part. I find the properties, I find the investors. I structure the deal. Once it's closed, I pass on to my team. Then now we deal with the tenants with the shenanigans, and I don't have to do that part. Then I'm ready to go to the next.
Victoria Cluney: Have you read the book traction? Is that on your list?
Sandro Ferreira: Oh, it's now.
Victoria Cluney: Added to your list? If you're making a new one for the new year. It's a great book and it really does outline the roles in a team and to me, You are the visionary. And so when you think about that, you are the visionary and everything that you're talking about doing. So when you read the book, you can think about that part. Love it again. It's called traction. We're gonna go into lightning round.
Daniel St Jean: Give more questions. You're so good with the regular question. Go with a couple more before we go into the lightning round.
Victoria Cluney: Okay, my question is it's a bit loaded, and I'll give a little backstory because Sandro and I have actually worked a deal together and I just have so much respect for Sandro because, oh, thank you. You can really tell a lot by somebody with how they work, how they operate, how they communicate, and I got to see that firsthand and he's so giving with his time.
And so the question that I have to you is, what's next? I can only imagine that you just have the biggest goals ever. And so is that something that you'd like to share with the audience? Yes. What is that, that, what do they say? The big hairy, audacious goals.
Sandro Ferreira: Yes. For me, there are a few things that are directly related to my car. What I believe and what, like why am I here for, right? And it was, I wake up for, which is my purpose. So my purpose in life is to inspire every single person I can. And if I change the life of one person, my mission is accomplished because poverty exists. Cause people are not taught to think like how to think.
People are now being taught what to. and if I'm able to change that, so then when I talk about this, of course this is, like a big idea and almost philosophical, but through restate is the mechanism that I can get somebody. With no education that can only do one plus two. One plus one is equal two, basic math and still be successful, change the faith of their lives.
Real estate can do this for us. So then for me, it's literally become the best person in this industry that is able to transform lives without a hidden agenda. This is what motivates me. I love that.
Victoria Cluney: Sandro, then what do you do with your free time outside of real estate and is it something that, cuz you're reading a lot of books. Because, real estate can be a very stressful environment to be in. And so reading is great for your mind. And then helps you to manage your stress and be able to.
Plant those seeds of ideas that you take that on. But what else are you doing to help set yourself up for success so that you can wake up every day feeling this motivated? Do you ever have a bad day?
Sandro Ferreira: I do have bad days, absolutely. But then becoming a coach is what helps me cope. Some days I wake up and often, why am I doing this? Why I don't just sell everything and buy a house in Burg or Pembroke and somewhere in the boonies mortgage free and gonna cut wood.
But then my wife, she tells me I'm not gonna survive three hours. Especially because I'm not handy, but , like I play music. So I play bass, guitar, keyboards, and every Sunday morning or every second Sunday I'm playing a church. Or when I'm done am I real estate. In my coaching and my deals, I sit in front of the TV and for two hours, I watch 90 Days or corny TV shows that I don't have to think about anything but.
This is a question that I'm asked often, but because I'm so passionate about the power of transformation that we see through real estate, honestly, if you let me. I do this from 7:00 AM to 11:00 PM every single day, and I'm still going. If you jump in a car with me at 7:00 AM I am ready to roll. Yeah. And no, we in a car by 11:00 PM I'm might be a little sleepy, but it's still going because I'm so passionate about that.
Victoria Cluney: That's what they say when you're following your dreams, right? You don't work a day in your life. And so what about something that you could share with the audience on like a major lesson that has been learned in your journey?
Sandro Ferreira: Yes. The major lesson is never doubt the power of one. What I mean by that, We can only go so far as we believe. So then of course we believe that you can't do a bunch of things because somebody said so. So then surround yourself with people that are already done and they'll say, yes, you can do, let's go. So then you're ready to level up. And again, everything starts on the. If you believe you can do it, or if nobody told you then you're gonna go and do it. But Sandro have no money. Sandro have no credit.
This is our excuses that we put for ourselves because now we have the internet. We have so many different masterminds. Groups. Don't find ourself a mentor, investing yourself. I made a post recently on my Facebook and I got a bunch of backlash cause I said the current educational system is creating his slaves.
Prove me wrong. Oh my goodness. It blew off. It blew off. It was like a backlash. But then I made another post IT education is the best investment you can ever make. So then somebody said like, how is Conservatory? I'm challenging the educational system that is teaching people what to think, and I'm challenging them to say, guys, go find education. It's free. You can find on the internet, you can find it a mentor, educate yourself. So then you'll be able to change other people's lives as I'm changing mind and other people around me. No, it makes sense.
Victoria Cluney: Absolutely. There's never been a better time where the. Access to free education and availability. And so the information is out there. And then I suppose the last question for me would be, what would you give, what advice would you give to somebody who is starting out, understanding that there are mentors and coaches out there and they could hire, but what else can people do if they're not prepared or they don't have the time or the ability to hire? How could they get into in this?
Sandro Ferreira: So many ways. Like we talk about wholesaling, talking about flipping so many opportunities, but if you don't know anything, we only know what you know, right? But I would say get started. If you have no idea what you can do, go talk to a mortgage broker. See if you can even qualify for a mortgage.
You might be surprised. They might say, yes, you can get a mortgage. Oh, but I don't have money. So then you find someone that has the capital to do the down payment. Yeah. And then they put the down payment to start partnership and all of a sudden you have the first, the second, the third, the hundred. Literally take action.
You stop the analysis, paralysis. You stop watching the news. It's only bad news, , and focusing things that will lift you up. I did that a long time ago. I stopped watching the news. When you realize that the news is, they're making money as well, and what they get the most views on is when it elicits high emotions from people.
And so that sensationally sensationalism is, it cannot be good for our health to see this day in and day out. Yeah, and it's so interesting vi Victor in that note. And you've been doing so many deals. The media is saying, oh, the market to crash. People are desperate. Oh, announcement is coming.
And I talk to a mortgage broker and the lawyers, it's like, Sandro, I don't know what they're talking about cause I'm as busy as ever . You know what I mean? Yeah. Get out of, the media. Cause as Victoria said, they're there to make money. Yeah. And take action. Start now.
Victoria Cluney: There's a famous Warren Buffet quote. Do you know what I'm talking about? Buy when those are fearful and sell when those are greedy. Something like that. I'll butcher it. But to think about that because the masses are going off. Of what's been put out there on the media, but when you understand the market and the cycle and interest rates and how that's going, and you have options to be creative, sky's the limits.
Sandro Ferreira: Sky's the limits.
Daniel St Jean: And you mentioned earlier going back to something you said about the power, you said never, ever underestimate the power of one. And if anybody out there has any doubt about that, read the story about Rosa Parks and Yes. Yes. And the other thing I wanna go back to that you said some, you know about people not having money or not having education, but here's the thing.
You don't have education, but somebody else, somebody out there does, you don't have credit. Somebody has credit. You don't have time. Somebody has time. So we, we keep going back to the same. Point, which is network. If you have a network, then you can do those six things you talked about there use other people's time, credit, knowledge, et cetera, et cetera.
And start with one and go to two and then whatever. So y yes, just because you don't have what you think is required to go into real estate, somebody out there does and just go find them. That's it. So I have two questions for you. and then the for today, give us one what, maybe your wife would be better to answer that question, but I'll ask you anyway. Give us one fun fact about yourself that you know would not be obvious to somebody even who knows you a little bit.
Sandro Ferreira: Yes. So I'm a singer and I'm a musician and I love the spotlight. But you know what? The reason I say this and I say with confidence is cause I grew up hearing it. Stop trying to be center of attention. This is horrible. Be quiet. So I thought it was negative, but then as I educate myself and I meet other people, it's if I have the ability to attract the attention, I'm gonna have people's money. Whoever holds the microphone makes the sale, right?
So this is a fun fact about myself that even though my wife, she's that strong Dutch woman, tough love kind of girl, she supports me. And what I'm saying, this is find like a partner, find a friend, find a group that will support you. Doesn't matter how crazy your, how crazy your ideas. Because that might lead to somewhere.
Daniel St Jean: Closing question. If I could wave a magic wand right now, where in the world anywhere would you like to be right now and why?
Sandro Ferreira: Oh man. I would be exactly where I am. I am so proud to be Canadian. I was I am Brazilian by birth, but I'm Canadian by choice. And people say that American Dream is the us they have no idea.
The American Dream is right here in Canada. I've been other places in the world and there's nowhere with so much opportunity. Like again, I come from a minority. I have a very strong accent. It doesn't matter. Because the opportunities here, if you're able to identify the opportunities we are going to succeed. So this is what I would be as I am.
Daniel St Jean: You may have an accent, but earlier you used the word boonies only a Canadian with . That impressed. Yeah. That's awesome. Alright. Thank you so much for your time because again, we know how busy you are and. Hopefully people get a little bit of motivation, inspiration from what you shared with us today. Thank you. Where do people find you? If somebody wants to find you? Cuz you're a coach.
Sandro Ferreira: I am on the Instagram TikTok, Linkedin. So end of the platforms /SandroCanada. Let's connect. If I can inspire you, let's do it.
Daniel St Jean: And if somebody wants to do deals with you, why not? Let's connect.
Sandro Ferreira: Yes, let's connect how we start to do. Why? If I cannot deal with you, I know somebody that might. And then we connected each other then. Guys, thank you so much. I am I honor. To have this opportunity to be here with you guys.
I speak this from like my heart. I know how relevant you guys are and for me, having this opportunity to share a little bit of my no history here is really humbling and uplifting. So thank you.
Daniel St Jean: We appreciate you. We will say goodbye here and then stick around. Victoria, we're going to be doing what we need to do to introduce. Thank you.
Victoria Cluney: Thanks. Take care, Sandro.
Sandro Ferreira: Thank you guys. Have a great evening.
Daniel St Jean: What do you think Victoria, tell us what you think of this interview.
Victoria Cluney: Just the information. I love hearing his story. I have heard it a couple of times, but I learned something new every time Sandro speaks about it. And so it's so inspiring. And what I really resonated with is the fact that he hears no and he still pushes forward.
And so it's just such a good message to tell people that. Just because one door closes, it doesn't mean that all the doors are closed to you and defined that way. I think that people hearing it will be inspired and really appreciate what Sandro has to say.
Daniel St Jean: Yes. And because one of the word that keep coming one of the few words that kept coming back is creativity, tenacity, and mindset. And if I look at any of those word, a dictionary is pictures should be not . They really should. Especially tenacity. Hopefully, the folks really appreciated the wisdom shared by Sandro and make sure to keep coming back to our Our recordings. We launch a new podcast every Friday, and we're well over 200 now.
Keep joining us because we have a lot of really cool, interesting people in the next few weeks and months to interview so long everybody. So long, Victoria. We'll talk to you soon.
Victoria Cluney: Take care, everyone.
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