Daniel St Jean: Another really great episode coming up with a very humble young lady. I'm sure she's gonna surprise a few people here are. Looking forward to it. Victoria.
Victoria Cluney: I am very excited for this one. I've met Andrea a bunch of times in the Ottawa scene at networking event, but we've never been able to really dig deep into her background, so this is gonna be the opportunity for me and then for the rest of the audience to hear her story.
Daniel St Jean: All right, and it's an inspirational one, so let's get to it. Hello everybody. We are so pleased to have this special guest today. Victoria Cluney is my co-host and we are hosting a podcast with Andrea Hodson.
Victoria Cluney: Hello.
Daniel St Jean: Let me start by telling you what I know about Andrea. I don't think I know another person who is as humble as Andrea is, and this is what I mean. We host events once in a while in Ottawa and I pretty sure that Andrea has attended all the four or five or six we've done in the last year and a half. She's always there talking to people, doing the networking while she's a professional. And we've had lots of conversations.
Recently, we were in Ottawa and Laurel, my wife and I went and had lunch with Andrea and out of the blue, not out of the blue, but through the conversation I find out cuz here's what I'm thinking. Okay. She is a mother, she has a kid, she has a full-time employment. She dabbles in real estate. Yeah, probably a few doors here and there and who knows what else. I've never really went into depth. And then I find out when we're sitting there at lunchtime that she owns 71 doors. I almost dropped my fork , which for me is a really big deal. 71 doors and you're going your humble way. This is nothing.
We're gonna talk about that today a lot. And Victoria and has a lot in common with you. And I'll let, so now you know what, I'm gonna let Victoria type over here cause we wanna figure out law about Andrea. And and how does somebody goes to 71 doors without making any waves on the surface.
Victoria Cluney: Thank you. And the same sentiments, I met Andrea at networking events, and we always start conversations, but then we never get to fully finish them. I was so excited for this interview today and to really get to dig deep and hear a little bit more about your history. Why don't you just open up the floor and let us know, how did you get started in real estate investing?
Andrea Hodson: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks. I started back when I was just out of university. I was actually looking for a place of my own Downtown, Ottawa. I live on the Gatineau side now, but originally I grew up in a suburb in Ottawa, outside of Ottawa.
I wanted to live downtown because my job was Downtown. I didn't wanna have to commute, so I was looking for like any typical triplex or something that I could live in, maybe the basement unit, the smallest unit, and have tenants help pay my mortgage for me. And at the time I couldn't find anything that suited my needs.
But I did find a few properties that the numbers worked on, but the units were just a bit too big for me let's say three bedroom, four bedroom units. So I ended up picking those those units up while still living at my parents'. So I had rental properties before I had a property of my own.
Victoria Cluney: And how old were you at the time and what year?
Andrea Hodson: This was 2009. I was 25. So anybody doing the math? I'm 38 now. And they were student rentals and that's how I started on the student rental scene. And then I kept looking a little longer and found and ended up coming over to the Quebec side because the price point was a little bit cheaper and I could live in a condo on my own. I bought a property that had beautiful views of parliament but the inside was straight from the seventies.
It had never been touched, so I renovated that. And also bought another condo down the hall and renovated that one. And then I took a few years off and just seasoned, the units that I picked up learned the ropes a little bit cuz I was starting from scratch. I still do the property management of my rentals here in Ottawa.
Victoria Cluney: Okay. And now how do you get to 71 doors from a couple and taking some time off. I guess walk us through a little bit of like where that shift came, because it sounds like you were pretty intentional, that's okay for a couple, but 71, you have to be very intentional. So can you talk to us a little bit about that? And what type of properties are they?
Andrea Hodson: Absolutely. So this was 2009, 2010 that I first started, and then I just rode the wave until about 2017 when I picked up my next it was my first commercial property. It was a five unit again, here in Ottawa, another student building. And then I was pregnant with my daughter in 2019, had my baby during the pandemic middle of 2020, would not recommend having a baby during a pandemic .
And then started 18 months of maternity leave with her and that's when I really picked up speed. I decided that I wanted to keep going on this journey and Started looking in places other than where I'm from, other than what I knew trying to, grow grow in different directions. I went out actually out east and started purchasing in New Brunswick. And in 2021 and early 2022, I picked up 59 units in New Brunwick, 59 units .
Victoria Cluney: Okay. You're gonna have to unpack that a little bit. And now, are you doing this on your own or are you with partners? How are you doing this at this point?
Andrea Hodson: It's all by myself. I'm now trying to have a growth mindset and looking into partnering with people and, broadening my horizons. But yeah, so far everything I've done on my own I've picked up a triplex in a few quads in New Brunswick, and then I did my first big apartment building, a 48 unit out there. That was that was my maternity leave.
Victoria Cluney: Okay. Can you unpack that? Where in New Brunswick is it? Was it off market deal? Was it on market?
Andrea Hodson: They were off market. I believe the majority of them now, thinking back, they were mostly off market. But they're outside of Moncton, so not right in Moncton but just outside. .
Daniel St Jean: And you're still doing the property but you said you were doing the property management of your properties in Ontario, but in New Brunswick you have property manage.
Andrea Hodson: I did. Yeah. There, there is only so many hours in a day. And so yes, it's I've been, I I did that a little bit on purpose, cuz I, again I like to fix things. I like to maintain things myself. So I looked for properties outside of my area and also outside of my comfort zone, letting someone else take that over.
Daniel St Jean: What type of education did you have? Cuz you came out of university. Okay. So you're a smart cookie and educated cookie, but what did you know about real estate? You picked up your first one and you were still living at your parents. But how do you go from, you need a little bit of knowledge. You don't just go out and buy 48 plex without knowing what you're doing. How did you get your education? .
Andrea Hodson: One thing that I wish I did a lot earlier was join some sort of program some sort of coaching. Cuz I did a lot on my own weeding through, like going through the weeds at the beginning, making a lot of mistakes myself. And so I think when I first started maternity leave, I signed up for a program that kind of helped me. Shoot forward, help me open some doors, help me have a better mindset on how to grow. And that allowed me to have bit more knowledge, a bit more confidence to do things more outta my comfort zone.
Daniel St Jean: Now I'm curious because you work for the government. Your husband too. You could be one of those traditional couple, and you're gonna work till you're 58 or 62. You're both gonna retire on a pension and live happily out proof for the next 40 years until well, until the end. So why would you, at some point decide? In addition to all of this, I also want to build an empire in real estate. What was your motivation?
Andrea Hodson: I think I'm an entrepreneur at heart. I would like to work for myself and I would like to do something that I'm passionate about. I like my job. My job is interesting. The passion's just not quite there. I'm very passionate about real estate and learning and helping. And this is where, I have my joy.
Victoria Cluney: How are you managing your time with all of this? Because even if you have property managers, it still takes quite a bit of time and especially with the amount of doors that you have and children. So yeah, what's your secret?
Andrea Hodson: Yeah. My secret, a few tips, tricks that I used. One thing is called time blocking. I used to just have a perpetual to-do list and whatever didn't get done that day, got shoved on the top of the list the next day.
And I found that wasn't really working for me. Cuz one thing if you know me at all, I'm really good at not doing the things I don't wanna do. They just pop up onto the next day, right? And then they'd pop up onto the next day. So time blocking. What that is, if you're unfamiliar, is, just setting up your calendar into small chunks of time and you have no choice but to focus on that one thing that you put in that time block. So you know, if it's that thing that keeps moving day to day , you stick it in a block of time and you get it done. So that is one little trick that I use.
Another thing is habit stacking. Basically, if you're trying to do something new, sticking it onto something that you already do. It's easy. You don't forget. It's not a big mental effort to start. So for example, I always wanted to do gratitude. I wanted to practice gratitude in my morning. But it's something that, I was never really consistent at.
So, now what I do is I do it when I'm brushing my teeth. Love it, right? You're gonna brush your teeth every morning. So it's just something that you add onto the top, right? Multitasking when you can, but also being present for the important moments, right? So if you only have 15 minutes between one thing and another thing that you have to do at night to spend with your kid, be present. Don't do the social scroll, right? Hang out. Yeah. Be there with her. So things like that. Doing reading instead of watching TV. Like educating instead of just choosing what you're gonna do with your time wisely.
Victoria Cluney: I can see that you've done a lot of self-reflection and a lot of work just based on how you're talking and all the strategies that you're implementing, and I just think they're so important that and effective, right when you can put the time in and you can identify where you struggle.
And if it was on a time management, like you were saying, then go and put that time in to figure out what type of strategies are gonna work for you. So I think that's awesome. So what is, what's next? What are you looking at next? You mentioned that you were thinking about partnering up, or do you think you'll on yourself?
Andrea Hodson: I think it's time to branch out, partner up. There's so much to learn and why not do it in a partnership, right? Right now I'm in a bit of a period of expansion, so I'm trying to work on what I can offload so that I can focus more on growth. As well. I'm trying to work more on my business instead of in my business.
So that I can spread what time I have in the best, most appropriate places. So yeah, I'm not sure right now I'm still in the seasoning period of, learning what all the new properties, I find you have to go through each season. To find out all the little things that, might have been missed on an inspection or like a tenant turnover or things like this. I'm still in that with the New Brunswick properties right now. But yeah, and I'm starting to dabble in investing outside of Canada thanks to Daniel. So that's on my to-do list as well. I want to keep going with that.
Victoria Cluney: And are you happy in the New Brunswick market? Are you gonna still continue looking there or are you gonna take a bit of a pause with the shifts that have been happening?
Andrea Hodson: Yeah, I think right now I'm gonna take a pause. It was a lot in one year and I like to diversify. I think that's enough there for now. And maybe look a little west instead of East now as well. Like I said, outside of Canada.
Daniel St Jean: I would like you to share with our listeners a success story. Tell us about a home run. You hit out right out of the ballpark.
Andrea Hodson: A home run. I think right now what I'm most proud of is the latest acquisition of that 48 unit. That one was a lot of, what I like to call speed bumps. You go up one side, you come down, you hit another one. And it was a long time coming for it to finally close. But getting that done. This is what something that I would consider a success story for myself.
Victoria Cluney: For that one, did you already have a team in place cuz you had bought, you said a couple, like a triplex and a fourplex. So you'd already established a team and then they were the ones that took that 48 or 49 unit.
For somebody who would be listening to this and thinking about, oh, I would like to go into a new market and then think about acquiring a property that size, what kind of tips or strategies would you offer for advice for somebody like that?
Andrea Hodson: Yeah, it's the same thing as the small guys, just on a bigger. Don't be scared. It's the same thing. It, there's a bit more paperwork involved, but that's it. It's yes, I had a team. It was a fresh team though, because again, everything happened in the same kind of short time crunch. But yes, it was the last of the, I have four buildings out there and it was the fourth building.
Daniel St Jean: Outta curiosity, what does a 48 Plex cost in New Brunswick outside of Mountain, and is it relatively new? Very old? What type of building is it?
Andrea Hodson: It's actually an adult, it's like an adult community building. It's a giant bungalow. If it looks like tetris pieces, to be honest, , like from Google Maps, it looks two L Tetris pieces. I think one of the, one of the the tenants was saying if you walk. If you walk the whole piece back and forth three times, it's a mile in a bit. It's just two giant bungalows. One was built in 2005 and the other one was built in 2008. So each side is 24 units. That was going for about 4 million at the time.
Daniel St Jean: 4 million, considering you buy a really nice fancy house on Mississauga Road in Mississauga for that same amount of money, that's a good move. Now let's go to the other end of the spectrum here. Can you tell us about a horror story? You must have messed up or add a little mishap at some point in your career so far.
Andrea Hodson: I think one of the big issues that I ran into was during the pandemic having mostly a student rental base here in Ottawa when all the students all of a sudden didn't have to go on campus anymore so they could move home, things like this. So I really had to pivot make different options available to them, payment plans subletting different things like this to try and keep afloat. So I made it out but it wasn't it wasn't without effort.
It was interesting times. And I think now, we're all better for it because we've learned how to pivot. So yeah, that would be one of the tough, one of the tough things that I've gone through.
Victoria Cluney: What kind of lenders are you using for like student rentals as It's an assisted living.
Andrea Hodson: It's not quite assisted living, it's just more of an adult community. Adult community mostly, like everybody's retired. But not quite assisted living. Yeah, like I'm still using regular banks. Just commercial lending for the five plus ones.
I have a wonderful mortgage broker. I'm sure everybody says it's all about your team. And they're not lying. It is all about your team. You need to have a great team and a mortgage broker is a really nice one to have in your pocket.
Daniel St Jean: There could very well be in all our listeners here, some ladies, women in their, I don't know, thirties who are like you, not happy with their job, but not necessarily or satisfied and what message or what. Could you share with them to help them make the transition, not the transition, but the move from not being a real estate investor to becoming a real estate investor.
Andrea Hodson: If it's of something that interests you, it's really a mindset. It's having a growth mindset and trying to get out of your comfort zone and learning, learning about, so learning about something that you don't know anything about. That's where we've all started, right? We don't learn this stuff in school. We don't. It if we did, we'd all be doing it. But it's this niche that, wonderful community of people, so much free knowledge out there. So many people that are willing to chat, teach you just gotta get out there.
You gotta get outta your comfort zone and believe that you know you can do it too. It none of us here. I don't wanna, it, it sounds negative, but we're not special. We're all regular people, right? We're just putting one step in front of the other and picking a direction and sticking with it.
Daniel St Jean: And you never stop learning because even though now with 71 doors, other people would just be satisfied and, relaxing. You were at our last event. You were sitting in the front row, you ask questions of all the presenters. You were making notes. So y , you are out there, you're doing it. And obviously you're going to get the, we'll talk to you again when. Go over your 500 door for another podcast interview, but I cannot see any reason why you wouldn't get there.
Victoria Cluney: Let's talk a little bit about like where you're thinking about investing next. You mentioned outside Canada, so is there a certain area? I can wager a guess, but I'll let you respond.
Andrea Hodson: I've picked up my first pre-construction in Costa Rica, actually a duplex. Exciting in Costa Rica. So that should be should be finished being built in the end of winter, I believe. 2023. That's Riverland.
Daniel St Jean: Riverland. Actually, I can tell you it's end of June because I was talking yesterday cuz we're gonna be there. I'm gonna be there with Laurel for the whole month of August. Surveying all of the different properties that we have under construction there. That one particular one is at the end of June. But good move there. We're probably gonna be neighbor in Costa Rica. Victoria, is this the time now for some lightning round questions?
Victoria Cluney: Let's do it.
Daniel St Jean: Lightning round, as the name says, is they're going to be really speedy, fast questions. And you've got, I don't know, 30 seconds to whatever comes to your mind and this is where we learn a lot more about you. You wanna start Victoria?
Victoria Cluney: I'm gonna bring a little bit of a fastball in here cuz you mentioned habit stacking. I'd like to know, what does your morning routine look?
Andrea Hodson: I'm part of the 5:00 AM club I'm up. I'm doing 30 to 60 minutes of exercise every morning. And then I'm getting ready. I need to be up before the house so I can get in some time to fill my own cup. And then, have my shower getting ready for the day. I start work early so I can finish early so that I can get to my second job. And and have some time with the family. I'm exercise is a very big part of my life. I knew I liked you for a reason.
Daniel St Jean: Andrea, what is the best advice you've ever received from another investor or a networking event or whatever? What's the best advice you think you've ever received?
Andrea Hodson: Best advice I remember someone saying in the last few months and I can't remember who. It could have been one of you. Everything is figure outable. Anything is doable, right? And we're all creative thinkers. Yeah, everything is figure outable.
Daniel St Jean: So this, you applied to the 48 because after going from a five to a 48, if you can do a five, you can figure out how to do a 48.
Andrea Hodson: Why not?
Victoria Cluney: What is your favorite book to date that you've read?
Andrea Hodson: I am a personal development junkie, so that's a very difficult question. I like you give top three if you want. Oh man. It's very difficult to pick. I would pick and I'm terrible with authors, so there's one called Atomic Habits. That one I believe is the one.
Talks about the Hobbit stocking and Untamed by Glendon Doyle, I believe it is. This was a really good one. I'm trying to think of a third. Obviously the rich dad poured out, if you're just getting into real estate, this is the one you start with, right? Absolutely. This really gives you the open mindset that you need.
Daniel St Jean: This is what's so fun with dealing with younger people like you. Because if you ask me that question, I'd be talking about Zig Ziegler and Jim Ron and Les Brown and Mark Victor Hansen. But of course, they're all old, some of them are dead. But anyway, you're talking about the newer gurus. The newer gurus. Andrea, what's the one thing you would do differently if you had to do it all over again?
Andrea Hodson: I think that's a really good question. I think I would start sooner , I would start coaching like getting into a program, getting into something sooner that gave me more knowledge. I'd stop tripping over my own feet and let someone else teach me, put the money into the coaching instead of your own mistakes. Learn from other people. That's probably what I would do.
Victoria Cluney: You don't know what you don't know. And 25 is admirable, very admirable. And a lot of people start after that, but it's I always explain the same. It's like a slow growth when you're not really being informed of all of the opportunities.
Daniel St Jean: Now, what's the one thing you would not do again?
Andrea Hodson: I would not listen to people who have smaller goals than you do for yourself.
Daniel St Jean: All right, Victoria,
Victoria Cluney: What aspect of yourself would you equate to your success today?
Andrea Hodson: Again, mindset. I think it's all about mindset. Yeah. Having the growth mindset with maybe a side of tough love having Discipline and consistency when motivation isn't there because motivation isn't always there. Motivation is rarely there. It's fleeting and the discipline is doing the things that you don't want to, cuz you know you should.
Daniel St Jean: And we learned earlier that you are really good at not doing the things that.
Andrea Hodson: I don't wanna do.
Daniel St Jean: But then remember this I read at one time a definition of happiness. Happiness is not having nothing to do. Happiness is having lots to do and not doing it. What one fun fact about yourself that only few people know about you?
Andrea Hodson: I love Latin dancing. I used to do a whole lot of it.
Daniel St Jean: That could be almost if you do it really intensely that's part of exercise in a way.
Andrea Hodson: Absolutely.
Daniel St Jean: So Latin dancing means countries of South America good wine. I know from the fact that you are a I don't know if you would consider yourself a wine aficionado, but you certainly know your wine, especially ma sauvignon bla from New Zealand. And tell us about your love or passion or for wine.
Andrea Hodson: I started actually making wine with my uncle. He he has been doing it for years and years. And now have gone into a niche of making fruit wine, actually. A lot of wine connoisseurs would not actually consider fruit wine. Wine, but I I like it. It's fun to get what's in season and make wine out.
Daniel St Jean: Actually, right we live in Nag Grand Lake in maybe 10 minutes down the road here. There is one winery that makes an absolutely delightful peach wine. And even though Laurel is a connoisseur and international judge, she really likes that wine. So yes, there are, if it's done well, it can be really pleasant, Victoria, any other questions?
Victoria Cluney: I think my last question is, you're very good at the networking events and it obviously you take advantage asking all the questions, but do you have any other tips that you would give the audience if they attend networking events or maybe they have a hard time showing up to these.
Andrea Hodson: You don't have to do it all. Doing one, just your going in the right direction is more important than your speed. So just doing one and talking to one or two people. You don't have to talk to the entire room, make good relationships with one or two people. And that will open up so many more doors than just saying hi to everybody there.
Victoria Cluney: Like that quality over quantity.
Daniel St Jean: Yes. Alright. My last question is, Andrea, if I could wave a magic wand right now and take you, send you anywhere in the world right this minute, where would you wanna go and why?
Andrea Hodson: That's a good one. I think it would be my grandma's breezeway on a hot summer day. Playing cards on that brown and orange old flowered patio furniture. I can picture it right? Listening to the rain. In the breezeway, playing cards, everything is just so simple there. You realize what the important things are. Peterborough.
Daniel St Jean: That's interesting cuz when we ask that question most comes up is Fiji or Bora or Barcelona, but Peterborough. Okay, fine.
Andrea Hodson: You know what, I would take Santorini too. That's okay.
Daniel St Jean: Alright. So Victoria, anything else?
Victoria Cluney: No, that's it. You've been a phenomenal. I'm very impressed. I didn't know that much about you and it's been a pleasure.
Andrea Hodson: Thank you very much for having me.
Daniel St Jean: Considering that how busy you are and mother and everything else that you do. We really appreciate the time that you gave us today to share your wisdom really, and knowledge with with our group. Thank you. And looking forward to seeing you and talking with you at the next live networking event.
Andrea Hodson: Oh, thank you so much for the opportunity.
Daniel St Jean: Surprises there Victoria?
Victoria Cluney: Many surprises. Oh my goodness. She is incredible. Very inspirational. You're right about humble. I think that there's so many more layers that need to be discovered with Andrea that I can't wait to find out, but just what she did share with us is just unbelievable.
Daniel St Jean: Yep. And hopefully the I said hopefully, but it seems to me that's gonna be inspiring to and motivational to a few people or some of our listeners, I should say. And especially the, while it inspired me to, cuz I get up at five o'clock too, but first thing I do is stack my 150 emails from the day before or the night before. So she does it much better by starting a. Exercising. So maybe that's gonna be, maybe that's gonna inspire me to start doing that now. Who knows?
Victoria Cluney: That's right. If you ever want a 49 unit, then start waking up at 5:00 AM and working out.
Daniel St Jean: So again, folks, thank you very much for being with us today and make sure to keep an eye on your inbox every Friday, so when we send you a link to a new amazing podcast recording. Have a good day everybody.
Victoria Cluney: Take care.
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