Jared Henderson: REITE club nation. It is Sarah Larbi. You are listening to the REITE club podcast in today's guest. Is Jared Henderson. Who focuses on the Peterborough and the Cornwall markets, student rentals, the BRRRR strategy. And, uh, we have a great conversation. We see what he's been up to in the last year and a half, and he's done some pivoting, uh, different strategies.
He's now full time in real estate investing. I hope you guys enjoy today's podcast before we get to today's podcast, though. Don't forget to leave a rating and a review and check us out because we are now going back to some live in person. Networking events opportunities. Check that out the REITE club.com go to the events page and you can see all of the great events that we have coming up.
We are still doing some webinars, but we are also now live in person. So on that note, I hope you guys enjoy today's podcast.
Sarah Larbi: Jared welcome to the REITE club podcast. How are you?
Jared Henderson: Great, Sarah, thanks so much for having me.
Sarah Larbi: I'm excited. I'm excited to hear what you've been up to since the last time that you've been on. And it sounds like a lot. But before we get into, you know, what's, uh, you have been up to in the last year or give us a little bit of a, you know, 30,000 foot view on what it is you do from a real estate investing.
Jared Henderson: I've been real estate investing for about a decade. Now, actually a decade. I started back in 2012 in Niagara falls. I bought two condos. I did it through, you know, uh, at the time, a high paying commission sales job. I saved up a good amount of money within a year or two, and then bought two condos in Niagara falls.
I always knew I wanted to be in real estate. And so these were condos that could be sorry. These were apartments that were converted to condos for investors like myself. They already had tenant. Um, and it was just a great way to introduce, to, to get introduced to real estate investing, but also be somewhat hands off.
It was a great experience for me, cuz I learned that, uh, once someone is in and paying rent, you, you, it's not easy to, um, uh, get them. To, to move on. Uh, you can in Ontario, as well as Quebec and other provinces, you can stay as long as you want. So that was an experience. But at the end of the day, I was able to refinance both those properties, a and grow a portfolio across, uh, few different cities now in Southern Ontario, uh, Peterborough Cornwall now, and, uh, a little bit in, in Bellville and, uh, I'm up to 23 properties. So it's been a wild ride.
Sarah Larbi: Amazing. Congratulations. So can you maybe share how you've pivoted, I guess, um, since the rates are now increasing inflation is, uh, you know, at an all time high prices are going up. Are you doing anything differently than you were, you know, two, three years ago?
Jared Henderson: I'm definitely looking at, uh, cash flow with, with much more conservative eyes.
For example, one thing I do, whether it's a, a student rental or a normal duplex, is I'm looking for that extra bedroom, um, to maximize the, the rental value. So, um, yes, interest rates have gone up, but so have rents. And specifically in my market student, uh, student housing, uh, demand has gone up because I think we had a blip in COVID where a lot of student rental owners said, well, you know, if students aren't going to class, then I don't want to be involved in this world. And so they, they decrease the supply of student rentals. Well, now that, uh, you know, uh, in house classes are back and everything is more or less back to normal, um, you know, there's great opportunity to get strong rents. So for example, when I started out in Peterborough rents for about $500 a room now, Six 50 plus.
I'm looking for that, that edge, right? If I'm looking at a regular bungalow, can I put that extra bedroom right next to the kitchen where it always goes, um, and get four beds up and two beds down so I can get an extra six or 700 bucks a month. Um, anything to maximize cash flow and obviously run your rates at at 5% plus cuz that's the current market.
It's just basically taking on properties. Will provide strong cash flow. And I'll be honest, there there's a couple in the LA the couple I bought in the last year that simply don't cash flow because I was on a variable. And now I'm paying say $500 more a month, maybe three or four. But, uh, the point is it went from positive to a negative and, uh, most of the might could hold, but if over time they cause too much issues, I'll, I'll be selling them because they don't want to have those in my portfolio for very long.
Sarah Larbi: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think many people are in that market, right. Especially with current tenants being in place and not being able to for the units that are, are rent controlled. I mean, you know, I think it was 1.2% increase in Ontario as an example this year, 2.5 next year. And it can only be, be increased by 2.5, unless you applied for, you know, a special increase.
And even then it's still normally keep up with the, the, I think the 20% to 30% year over year actual market increases what, with what we're seeing. So. um, so it is, you know, about looking at your, at your portfolio. So the properties that you purchased that no longer cash flow, um, you know, I think it's a good conversation to have.
So like you're you mentioned potentially selling, uh, you know, are you looking at other, other avenues of, of trying to recoup that or, you know, how you positioning your portfolio to be able to handle that?
Jared Henderson: And I'm in the unique position where. I, I don't need to sell, uh, I flip for income now since I'm a full-time real estate investor.
Basically, my idea is to flip and, and use the funds to hold these properties. That that will be negative for a short period of time. So let's say whether it's rates coming down. Eventually or, uh, rents inevitably going up, they, they will cash flow. It's just a, a function of my tolerance to, to hold them.
The idea is my, my best advice is for, uh, your listeners that are looking to buy their first property, uh, to make sure it, you know, cash flows at 6%, 7%. Um, that you have a plan B in case, uh, it doesn't work as a student rental, you can duplex it, um, or have, uh, any other avenue such as Airbnb to maximize the cash flow of the property.
Once you have a few properties you can sort of play around and there's more maneuverability and, uh, I just have more options, but that being said, the strong fundamentals are. Keep the properties that are, that are cash flowing and the ones that aren't or negative, uh, figure out how you're gonna turn negative into a positive. And if you can't, then I believe that, uh, selling is likely the best option.
Sarah Larbi: Absolutely. Now you, you also mentioned, uh, while you were talking there about being full-time now. So, uh, you know, when did you, when did you make the leap and, and.
Jared Henderson: That was the beginning of this year is actually January. I did a flip in, in Peterborough. Of course, this makes me look like a genius, cuz it was at the height of the market. But I sold in, in, um, in January for a place that I bought for four 60. I sold it for, uh, 7 25 after putting in maybe 20 grand. We're just talking about a third bedroom up top instead of a two bed, uh, paint and a bit of floor.
And that really started, uh, me gave me the confidence to, to basically dive into this and say, Hey, you know, all I need to do is a few of these a year. And then, then that's more than replacing, uh, my, my income. So, um, between that and having a lot of fun with it, it, it became easy and the truth is I'm using the same skillset.
I'm just applying it to variable, you know, different outcomes. Right. So before I was just taking my money, investing it in, let's say these BRRRR projects were, um, buying a property, renovating, renting, and refinancing. Um, that's great, but it doesn't provide the cash flow. Even if you have 110% or plus per, um, you still need to eat at the end of the day.
What I'll do is if there's a place. Um, I see the potential and I can buy at a good price and renovate and sell then, uh, that will be my income. I call that my grocer money, right? That's that's groceries. That's the Morg, my mortgage, um, other expenses now that I got a little one and, um, the buy and hold game is with JV partners, also my own personal funds.
And, you know, it's fun looking at a property and saying, Hey, what's, what's the highest, best use. If I can't, uh, duplex, it does it work as a student rental? If it doesn't work as a student rental, does it work as a flip and exploring all these opportunities? There's so much you can do. There's so much versatility in real estate.
That makes it fun and interesting. Right? You, you, you can have so many successful outcomes with the property you, as the investor get to choose, which is fun.
Sarah Larbi: Absolutely. Which month was it that you actually left your nine to. January. Cause that was before, that was when the height of the market. And did you have any, any thoughts in March in April and May when things started shifting of like, oh crap or like, what was your thought process then?
Jared Henderson: Not really. You know what I always said? Um, hold what I hold what I can, we're inevitably going to experience some, some downfall on pricing, right?
The challenge for myself as well as I'm sure of a lot of investors is that we've anyone who's been around for even 20 years have, have only experienced more or less other than let's say 2017 in a few other spots, uh, strong appreciation or positive appreciation, right. We haven't a progressive downturn, but what happened was interest rates increased so much in such a small span of time.
Is that the challenge for me is adjusting from, you know, these one, 1.7% variable rates to like 5% now. So there's a reason why, you know, you run your numbers with that buffer. So, uh, you don't, you don't over extend yourself. Um, but really, and sorry, you know this as well, this is a game of adopting and if you adapt, you'll be fine.
Through these changes is gonna. These changes are gonna result in a lot of opportunities for investors, whether that's, um, you know, buying at a attractive price, um, being able to finally get an inspection done on a property. I mean, I really do try to look at a positive on it. At the end of the day, the, uh, you know, the net worth taking a, a big hit, let's say comparing it from January to now, that's not fun, but at the end of the day, This, this is gonna happen again, if we're in this game for long enough. It's definitely been, uh, a learning experience and it's, it's been a hit, but it just makes you a better investor that's for sure.
Sarah Larbi: A Hundred percent. And, but it is interesting, right? Because like, obviously you did really, really well. And then all of a sudden, the market turns, you leave your full time job and you're going into flips.
And so walk me through maybe how you analyze a flip today, uh, in this market versus how you analyzed a flip, you know, back in January.
Jared Henderson: I think that I heard some flippers previously would build in the appreciation. So let's say you buy. Closes two months from now. And then you need, let's say two or three months to rehab the project and then you're out in six months.
Well, at the, at the rate of appreciation, prior to January, you could probably buy anything and wait six months and not have to do anything and make a, a good deal of profit. So what I'm doing now, and the way I've adapted my, um, my buying strategy is to, to build in the buffer. If it goes. Right. So, um, it's not a fun conversation when you, you know, you got a property that, that needs work and someone has been anchored in their pricing to January and February prices.
Despite the, the renovations, it requires, um, those, those are challenging conversations, but you just try to, um, Basically apply some reason and say, Hey, you know, this is a, an opportunity for a place that really this property shouldn't be on the MLS. You're not gonna you're, you're gonna deal with a realtor.
Who's gonna want you to put in, you know, $30,000 plus, uh, you're looking at a longer close. There's a lot of benefits with working directly with, with buyers like myself. And, uh, you know, if, if there's no exchange of value there, then you just move on to the next property. Right? So I think a big part of, uh, my strategy changing has become, it has been to become more disciplined with the, um, with the buying strategy.
On a more conservative basis, whereas before I'd be like, well, I know this is gonna be worth this in, in six months. Uh, now since the, the trend is softening, I just need to buy at a lower price and also add more value. So for example, if there's a two bedroom, but it has a great floor plan where I can knock down a couple walls and turn it into a four bed, two bath, then we're looking at different comps.
Then we're looking at a different ARV and then I can make sense. It, it forcing us to use more creativity to, to buy and flip. It's definitely tougher. It's it's tougher, but that's yeah.
Sarah Larbi: I have a, like, for example, like a bird calculator that, you know, I put everything through gives me my ROI. It sounds like you're doing something similar now. Are you using like a certain percentage? So like, let's just say you look at your January, February prices. Are you taking a 20% decrease when it's done from that ARV to guesstimate the after repair value? Like, how are you, like, how are you structuring that?
Jared Henderson: What I try to do instead of working on a, a percentage let's say decreased basis is I think we've, we've seen a. 10, uh, 15 to 20% dip in most markets, some more, some less, but let's just say that, um, what I'll use is basically, um, you know, uh, call it five, five to 10%, worst case scenario where I believe that since we've fallen, what we obviously can fall more, but I don't think I know I'm gonna get some grief for this.
I don't think we can go another 20% or at. If we do my, my plan B is to hold the property and have it as a rental. I really do believe in the it's called the evergreen strategy where you don't only have one option when you buy a property. If I go through the process and add the value and turn it into a four bed, two bath, and I, and I can't get the ARV that I'm looking for, I wanna hold it.
I know it's a bit of a longwinded and I didn't really answer. Long-winded answer that. Didn't really address it, but the truth is. I attribute each property to have a conservative ARV value based on recent comps. Right. And when I say recent, I'm not talking about three months ago, cause that's ancient history.
I'm talking about two weeks ago, uh, in the last month in the area. And it can't, it has to be a direct comparable. It can't be one street over where the Street's even remotely nicer than this street. Um, I'll use everything on my side to get the best. In order to get the, uh, the best outcome on the sale, right.
Sarah Larbi: Absolutely. Okay, awesome. So you mentioned JVs, you mentioned partners. Are you doing these by yourself? Are you bringing in investors to participate? How's that structured?
Jared Henderson: Sometimes I buy them myself and sometimes I, I look for partners depending on the type of property when it comes to BRRRR properties.
Now, since I don't qualify for A type financing. If I see what is my bread and butter property, which is a raised bungalow it's dated where I can, you know, increase the, the value by a couple hundred thousand 200, just $300,000, then I'll work. I'll typically work with a partner that works a nine to five job, or has, you know, solid net worth where they qualify for the, A financing.
And then, uh, basically use those funds to buy the property renovate and then return as much as the capital as possible upon refinancing. We're still seeing strong, um, appraisals on. Legal duplexes in my market of Peterborough. So as long as that sustains itself, then there's really a, a, a low downside to, uh, to continuing this process.
And the worst case scenario is it's, it's, it's cashflow positive and we don't get the appraisal that we aimed for, but it's not as though there's any real money lost. Right. We're looking to buy these and hold them for at least five to 10 years know, if we don't get the appraisal of seven 50 and instead it's seven fine.
You have a, you have a lower mortgage, you're gonna cash flow more. And, uh, there's just another opportunity in three to five years to refinance it again. And get the right pull out. Yeah.
Sarah Larbi: You can always do two refinances, three refinances. I mean, really ultimately like it's, it's flexible. Right? Doesn't have to just be the, the first time when you're done the renos, you can wait a year depending, take like, take a look at what the market's doing.
And if you've got some new comps that the appraisers can use, then, uh, that's better for you. Mm-hmm um, to keep a pulse on that, on that market. So an investor that's coming in, like what, is there a minimum qualification that you're looking for?
Jared Henderson: Yeah. So right now, most of my projects would require about, uh, say 200, 250,000. I'm targeting bungalows right now with prices softening in the high fours, early fives. That would be in good neighborhoods in Peterborough. Um, and so between that, and I would say the renovations run between 80 and 120,000, depending on the. Depending on the property, the layout, the ceiling height, the windows and everything like that, that we can get into. We're looking at about two, two to two 50 as, uh, as an entry level raised bungalow.
Sarah Larbi: Right. Right. Okay. So they would bring in the money. Now you want them to hold the financing, I guess as well since your T4 income is gone.
Jared Henderson: that's right. Exactly. Yeah. I, I, you know, Sarah, I always said I'm a broke investor now. I'm only as good as my latest flip. I, I use that to exaggerate in the sense that, um, You know, I I'm a true investor in that most of my funds are they're always being deployed into properties, whether that's improv, uh, you know, improving them to improve cash flow or it's just a general maintenance.
I don't like a lot of money in my bank account sitting around and being deteriorated by inflation.
Sarah Larbi: Yeah. I mean, it's obviously important to have some staying power and have some liquidity along with, you know, taking advantage of the opportunities that are coming up. Um, we've recently had a student by a, a house in Hamilton.
That's gonna be a triplex. Actually. It could probably even be a four unit, um, for a number. It was 4 95. Purchase price. Like that's unheard of in Hamilton for like the last, like the last long while. So, I mean, again, it's, uh, you know, opportunities are out there. And I think like you mentioned, the beginning can actually ask for inspections now.
We got the price down based on the inspection coming back. There's always things these a hundred year old houses, there's always problems that you can negotiate on. The worst that they can say is no. Um, but you know, now we're seeing. People actually decide to say yes to the price decreases and the new, the new pricing negotiating.
There's lots more strategies and lots more opportunities. I think for investors to, you know, now have the upper hand, the ones that are purchasing for sure. Yeah. So you're juggling real estate. You're juggling that with a new baby and a family. How are you managing your time?
Jared Henderson: Well, I think I learned this from you, Sarah, you, you delegate a lot of your cooking and cleaning and all those great things you don't want to do.
I'm starting to do the same as well to free up our time. Uh, my wife's a working professional with a, with a strong career and, uh, you know, we, we want to, uh, be present and have energy for our baby boy. And, uh, in order to do that and for me to. Uh, be effective at what I do. Um, you know, similar to a business you want, you want to delegate the task that you can to, to get your energy, um, and focus on, on what's actually making you money, not costing you time.
I love delegation oh, no, I get it. It, it makes sense. And, um, I can take that to another level where we're finally starting to, I'm starting to hire. Um, part time teetering on full-time, uh, employees in order to help me out with a lot of administrative tasks. Like the other day, I realized with the amount of properties you're managing, it's like I've got an insurance renewal every two weeks.
It's annoying. Um, there's so many payments going out, so many payments to, to come in. Um, these tasks don't. Build my business. They're essential in order to, to keep a business running and afloat, but what I really like doing most and, uh, you know, it took me some time to, to realize this, but is I like finding the deals?
I love putting up signs. I like getting out flyers. I like networking. I like finding those win-win situations privately with investors who are looking to get out of, uh, any properties that are causing them grief. And, uh, that's, what's, uh, propelled me to. Some form of success in getting those properties under market value.
There's a lot you can do once you have that. And you work with a team that can, can renovate and manage these properties. Right. So mm-hmm, having fun.
Sarah Larbi: Absolutely. I mean, the acquisitions and the winning and that kind of stuff is fun. And then, you know, there's all the managing and the operations side of things. Did you do sales when you were working? Full-time I can't remember.
Jared Henderson: Pretty much a sales history for the last 10 years. And no, I, I always love it, but at the end of the day, There's nothing like, um, working for yourself where, you know, for example, I I'll, I'll go and, and cold call deals that, um, that make sense.
I can't be on the phone all day long because I've got many lures out, uh, to get inbound leads. Uh, but the truth is once you're sourcing the deal yourself, you know, mm-hmm, , you can offer benefiting from it significantly. If I found a great, if I find a great. And I don't want myself. I can wholesale it if I do want it myself.
I can keep it, renovate it, work with a partner on it. There's so many different options. So, um, when you're working for another company, it's great. You, you, as a salesman, you. For a good salesman, successful, you make strong commission, but at the end of the day, uh, it's, it's the business that you're working for, that that's really benefiting from your services.
And that's fine too. It's just, um, it's a different level when you're working for yourself and you you're essentially creating your own equity. You're creating a hundred percent of the equity versus sharing that equity. with a partner
Sarah Larbi: Yeah. I mean, the reason I was asking, cuz I, I have a sales background too, and you, my favorite part of real estate is acquisitions and negotiations and stuff like that. And I think like, you know, in a parallel universe, like being a sales rep or a sales manager or whatever is very similar to the deal acquisition and the negotiations piece, right. And you've got the operation side of things and that's probably more like being a landlord and the management. And so, because for me too, like, I, I, I feel like I, you know, I've done sales for 10 years and I gravitate towards making offers and getting accepted offers and that kind of stuff.
It's like, that's the fun part. I'm not saying that like, none of the other stuff is fun either. It just is more of the operations thing. And then sales is like the acquisition. Right. And I mean, that's kinda how. Look at too as a parallel thing. So a lot of people that were in sales, they like, you know, and have a lot of friends too, with the sales background, they love the acquisition piece,
Jared Henderson: either amazing realtors or full sailors. I, I bet, you know, with, with the sales background, because you're basically applying that skill that you've honing for for years in sales and, and applying it to real estate is a fantastic area. Yeah. Mm-hmm, for sure more fun on, on acquiring the property. And of course that involve the long term vision of, am I gonna hold it?
If so, is it student rental, duplex? What kind of tenants? What kind of neighborhood? What, what, what can we get for rent? That's all very important, but, um, I know that outsourcing and growing my team on the property management end is, uh, is vital to success. So I, I do my best to build those relationships with the partners that are looking to do the things that I don't want to do, which is, you know, swinging a hammer and managing the property.
Sarah Larbi: Awesome. All right, Jared. So next part is their lightning round. So I'm gonna ask you four questions. You're gonna gimme the first answer that comes to mind in 20 seconds or last or you ready to play? I am. All right, so here's question number one. What is the best advice that you have ever received from another investor or at a networking event?
Jared Henderson: Tom Sullivan told me about a few years ago. He's like, you know, everyone is obsessed about this and how many doors and how many units, da da, da, da, da, da, da. And he is like, you know what? The second you've got three to five income properties, you should consider yourself very lucky and you you've quote unquote made it.
And that always hit me because even now I'm finding myself comparing with guys with a hundred units, 500 units, all that. And how do I get there and this and that, but at the end of the day, um, you're really only competing with yourself and often you shouldn't even do that. You should look back and, and see the progress you've made. And, um, it's just a, a great way of not comparing yourself with, with others.
Sarah Larbi: Absolutely. Great advice. Number two, what is your favorite resource in general? It could be anything, a book, a person training, an event, anything that you can think of?
Jared Henderson: What I would recommend for your listeners who are looking to get into real estate investing, I would highly recommend getting a good coach that has success in, in doing exactly what you want to do. That's number one, uh, in terms of the resources that I enjoy. Most are podcasts. They still do a lot of driving. I'm driving to Peterborough from Montreal. So that's like five hours there, five hours back in between my little stop offs in Bellville and Trenton and whatnot. So podcasts are my friend. You've got a great podcast, but like you I'm, I'm a big, bigger podcast, a bigger PO pockets, uh, listener, uh, just tons of advice. It's not all super relevant, cuz it is US based. But at the end of the. They have the right framework and, uh, lot of fun.
Sarah Larbi: Question number three, what is the one attribute that has made you most successful in your opinion?
Jared Henderson: I think, um, just sticking with it and taking action. You, you need to take action in order to experience the success. So a lot of would be investors get caught up in the education. And I was thinking about this the other day. No one can, I don't wanna say be overeducated, but you always feel good as you get educated and motivated, but these aren't actions that drive that move the needle, they don't move the financial needle for you.
What I, what I taught myself is as. Started experiencing some success is start taking action once you're 75% sure you don't need to be 99% sure. By the time you are either the deal is done or you're, you are really just more in your head and you're looking for excuses not to do something. It's really about, uh, taking action and not quit. I love it to be successful with those two, for sure.
Sarah Larbi: Taking action, not quitting. All right. And last question. What do you do typically on a Sunday morning,
Jared Henderson: I'm getting older. So I stretch that sounds so I stretch, I run, I, I, you know what, um, with my free time that I value so so much, I, I really enjoy exercising. I'm starting to lift weights. I used to run a lot and, um, I just sort of got out of that, cuz it's hurting my knees, hurting my back. I just don't do the same distances anymore, but a typically exercise or a nice long walk on the mountain, something exercise related.
Sarah Larbi: Awesome. I feel like last year you were tracking like how much you were running and you were posting that.
Jared Henderson: I had some good toll. Yeah. I was, uh, I was doing like probably, uh, 20 to 30 kilometer runs once a week. I never did a marathon. I've done a whole bunch of half marathons mm-hmm , but I think once COVID came and the gym shut down, um, you should see where I live and right on the water. It's beautiful and nice.
You know, it's just ideal to run. You just put on your shoes and you're there. There's no driving to a place to work out and that's fine. I just sort of got obsessed with it and, uh, I'm still sticking with it. Just not of the same distances, right? I'm not going out for a two hour. If I do that down the line fine. But I enjoy working out now. Awesome way hockey. Yep. Very cool.
Sarah Larbi: Awesome. All right. So Jared, where can the REITE club nation reach out and find out more?
Jared Henderson: The best place to reach out is through Instagram. My handles Jared H 55. So that's J A R E D H 55. And you know, just reach out, uh, whether you're new or experienced, you wanna say, hi, have any questions? Either Cornwall or Peterborough, uh, I'd be happy to chat by the way. I host two WhatsApp groups. I started one in, in Peterborough where I think we're like 110 already. And I would say 60, 70 investors. Some are investors in other markets and looking they're
Sarah Larbi: very cool. Can you invite me to it? I wanna join.
Jared Henderson: Absolutely.
Sarah Larbi: How do I join?
Jared Henderson: Absolutely. Well, I'll just add you at the end of the call. It's very, it's very easy. Oh, perfect. Look at that. Remember and it's and um, you know, it's a great resource to encourage people to. Basically share contractors, property managers, all the vendors and strategies in a certain market.
Like, you know, I'm, I'm from Montreal and I'm investing in Peterborough people always. Mm. Why Peterborough, why this? And I'm like, well, you don't have to live where you invest. All about the people and the connections and building the relationships right. Once you, once you do that, build that trust and have any, a community like that you're providing to reach out to when you have the question.
You don't have many excuses anymore, cuz the answer is usually there. So yeah, I have one for Cornwall we're only sort of 20 now Cornwall like are for most of the Southern Ontarians. So, um, that's fun and exciting cuz it's only an hour from Montreal. Mm-hmm and it's a great market. I'm not just saying that. Cuz I'm there. It's it's affordable. We're all looking for cash flow now.
Sarah Larbi: If anybody wants to reach out to you about Cornwall, Peterborough, just investing in general or whatnot, potentially partnering with you, then, uh, they can reach out to you. And you said Instagram was the best spot that's right. Amazing. Jared, thank you so much for being on the show.
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