Laurel Simmons: Hi everyone, it's Laurel Simmons here from the REITE Club, and I am joined by my co-host, Paul Copcutt. Paul, it's great to see you and hear you today. I'm looking forward to doing this with you. Laurel, we've not done a show yet.
Laurel Simmons: And our guest today is Brooke Shang, who is a young woman who's really, I would say gone. I was gonna say into the deep end, that's not the right image. I want people to have, she's really focusing and gone done a deep dive into real estate investing in, and she's written a book too.
She's got lots and lots of great insights. We have done the interview, so we have the advantage of having heard it before we do the introduction, but Paul what briefly were some of the things that struck you with Brooke when she was.
Paul Copcutt: What amazes me is that Brooke has really only been doing real estate investing for five years. And you look at the fact that she's done numerous real estate investing deals and different strategies as well, which is not always the case with a lot of real estate investors.
They'll pick one strategy and stick with it, but she's adapted because of the type of market she's in and the type of opportunities that have come up. She's pivoted several times, which is which was
Laurel Simmons: interest. Yeah, and it sound does sound too, like she's doing not she's not doing just one and then another, she's doing multiple, multiple strategies at the same time which, takes some practice and, but she said she started with one and, Hey, that's what everyone does.
You start with one, right? You just, and you just start, that's the most important thing. I think that's the most important advice any new investor can get is you just,
Paul Copcutt: And the other thing I should point out to listeners is Brooke was a speaker at one of our events just recently. And the recording of Brooke's presentation is gonna be up on the, we will be up on the website by the time this episode comes out.
All right, check
Laurel Simmons: that out as well. That's great. So before we go to the interview everyone do go to the website, www.thewrightclub.com. There's lots of great content on there. Sign up be informed, lots of education, and we really do hope that you customize your life with real estate. Until next time, let's go to the interview.
Laurel Simmons: Welcome, Brooke to the REITE Club Podcast. So you're an investor and you're with Trust your talent and let's just get right into it and tell us why did you start investing in real estate?
Brooke Shang: Thank you. I like a lot of people. I thought about getting into real estate for quite some time actually. And I actually got really serious about it when I got back to the workforce cuz I realized we pay a lot of tax.
We're now accumulating a lot of wealth even though we are a double income family at the time. So I live in Toronto, so expenses is pretty high, and that's when I thought, it doesn't make sense the way we lived our life. We make more, we pay more taxes. We're not accumulating a lot of wealth. So if I thought about creating wealth, the only wealth we actually created was just the appreciation of our properties and we didn't actually seriously thinking about investing.
We already. What real estate could do for us. So that's when I thought, okay, if I wanna create wealth, if I don't want to constantly worry about paying tax and money, I wanna learn about how to properly invest as an investor. So that's how I started.
Paul Copcutt: And what sort of, what were the first kind of steps or what, which, what was your first property and what does your portfolio look like now?
Brooke Shang: When I started, I could, I wouldn't say I intentionally became a. Landlord. Our first investment property, or I should say rental property, was our previous home, which was a condo in Toronto. So that gave us the opportunity to take out equity, so HELOC at the time to use that money to buy our current home now, and also some extra HELOC to invest in the education first.
And then start to buy some investment properties. My very first one was only just over a hundred thousand, and that wasn't even that long ago, end of actually beginning of 2017. So just with the property we have in Toronto, we were able to pull out some equity. So that's how I started. That's how it looked like.
Then one property to start our previous home, a condo, then another income property. Then I thought, This is going a little too slow. My goal was to actually create cash flow, so I focused on something more creative. I started with lease options, so rent to own as my focus strategy in the beginning. And since then I have converted a few duplexes.
Got into multi-family now I'm into in info projects. And I did a lot of different creative financing, so lending mortgages. So it has evolved quite a lot. It really depends on which stage in my. And in the very beginning, yes, it was cashflow focused.
Paul Copcutt: So it's interesting you've done quite a few different kind of strategies.
Is that something that you would recommend to a new investor or what advice would you give somebody who's thinking exactly like you were a few years ago? I want to get into real estate investing, but maybe they don't know what to do next.
Brooke Shang: I think like anything else, set your goals first. Yes, we don't have to stick to one strategy if that doesn't work. So how I look at it is, at first I really wanted to know that I could create cash flow like I said, don't wanna depend on my working income and pay a lot of taxes. What can I do? To create that wealth, to create the cash flow. So for new people, new investors coming in, you don't have to stick to one strategy, however, properly learn how to start, how to do it.
Because when I mentioned lease option, it's not that straightforward. as a creative way of creating cash flow. So make sure you learn how to do it, but go back a step to see what your goals are at that time, to decide on what strategy you wanna get into. Like I mentioned, I was lucky in Toronto, I see equity, right?
So at first, I thought I don't have to. focus on building equity. I already see that. However, at that time, it's like piggy bank that I really couldn't just sell and get the money out. I saw it as equity sitting there, and now I'm f I was focusing on creating cash flow. Now I'm at a point where I see that I could create cash flow.
Let's build up some equity too, at the same time. It doesn't have to be one after another. So now I have short-term, midterm, long-term goals as well. short term. It could be lending, could be flip, something that could create something quickly in terms of cashflow or capital. And long-term it's long-term holds.
Laurel Simmons: What is your, how do I put this? If you've got different strategies and you're doing a lot obviously, are you doing this full-time? Because a lot of people who listen to this podcast, they do it part-time. In the evenings people have jobs and they love, a lot of them love their jobs. Some maybe don't put that as another story, that's another podcast. But do you do it full-time? Do you do it part-time? And when you started out, how did you do it?
Brooke Shang: I don't look at it as full-time or part-time currently, cuz my job is so flexible. Like a lot of people since Covid, all of a sudden we can work from home as long as we could finish whatever we are supposed to do.
And my job, from the very beginning, it was flexible as long as I finished my work and it just evolved that I'm spending actually more time on the real estate side. My job is in a way that demanding in the beginning when we were setting it up, now I'm more flexible. There are still certain hours I have to put in.
However, it depends on what you wanna do. I don't think if it's a side hustle, it's gonna stop you from progressing in real estate cuz as long as you do a little bit at a time. When I started, I basically allocate a few hours at night and back then the education was on the weekend, so a lot of juggling.
My kids were young, so a lot of my mommy friends helped take the kids to activities. My husband helped and then I spent a lot of time at night just to go through the material. But overall, I started investing as a side hustle. I wouldn't say I spent any less time, though I didn't sleep a lot. I didn't think I had to do that.
However, that's how I started. Just some weekend courses in the beginning and then studying during the week, looking for deals during the week as well and analyzed. I think I was able to be more. Efficient cuz I had the network when I started. Just get into the REITE club, different clubs, and also just learning from other people who have already done it.
Paul Copcutt: So it sounds like your, everybody talks about the power team. It sounds like your power team was an expanded one, because you had other people helping you. Yes. What advice would you give to investors in terms of. Building up that team, getting that network together. What are the, who are the important things? Because you've also mentioned several times, you've mentioned training and education.
Brooke Shang: Training and education at the same time you meet people po possibly started the same time as you. You could be each other's accountability partners as well. I did have a mentor, so Tim has been on the podcast a couple of times with somebody who have already done it.
You don't have. Figure everything out by yourself. That's the first thing. And I will say, you probably don't just have one realtor, one lawyer, or one mortgage worker on your team, on your power team. Speak to a lot of people. Sometimes you vibrate each other , sometimes you don't. Even though they're crazy good or depends on what they specialize in as well.
So ask my strategy changes my realtor would change, my mortgage broker might change, however, , you are constantly building that team as well. So people in your network will constantly evolve as well. And I will say even when I started, a lot of people started with me as my friends or new investors. Not everybody stayed actually. It might became their side hustle or they found something else, or they just then go through the hurdles as an investor. So even people in your network will constantly change.
Laurel Simmons: And that's really interesting what you say about, investors and people in your network. Because I know one of the most difficult thing for especially investors who are starting out, people who really are just starting out is they don't understand how to get.
The investors involved, right? Like it's scary because they think yes, that they're going to ask for money and it's a real mind shift, isn't it? Yes. You're not asking for money. What are you asking for? You tell us.
Brooke Shang: You're showing that you can actually provide value and it has to be a win-win, right? If this you're providing something not the other person wants, then it's not gonna work. At the same time. I think as we evolved and got into more deals, now we know how to structure deals differently too. I'll give you an example. If somebody's lo looking for a long-term wealth, they could probably come in a deal with equity, not necessarily cash flow, or somebody who's looking for cash flow or a quicker results they.
Do a flip with me, or they're looking for a project we can distribute cash flow monthly. immediately. So as we evolve, you have to provide something. The other party won as well. Yes. It's sometimes hard to say, Hey, I'm gonna do this deal and I'm really scared myself too. How can I get you involved?
So a lot of the time is really mindset. I think 80, 90% is mindset. The education portion is actually. Build your confidence so at least you know what you're talking about. And even built upon other people's mindset. How did they overcome the hurdles? How did they overcome the same doubts that you have? It?
It's common. We all went through the same thing. So it looks like a lot of money. At the same time, you're starting to get more comfortable as well. As you get into more deals it looks like a lot of money. However, how do you leverage, how do you present it to your potential investors? Really you, you have to overcome the same fear cuz we're investors too.
So when we got started thinking the same thing, how do I scale? Why do I fail? Your investor will think about the same thing. What if the deal couldn't work as planned? A lot of it's trust. A lot of the time it doesn't go as planned. And I found that even though it didn't go as planned, if we trust each other, usually we can get out of it and in a very profitable way. That's a good thing about real estate. So many different exit strategies
Paul Copcutt: You mentioned. Earlier about hurdles and some people not carrying on with real estate investing. What particular hurdles or challenges have you faced and overcome?
Brooke Shang: Wow, there's so many. The biggest and the most recent ones are tenant issues.
For me. And the funny thing is sometimes it's not about money because when we look back or when we tell people the story about how I had to deal with tenants and eventually I got them out, I possibly, some properties I've sold in the end, or currently I'm getting into new tenants, et cetera. Money-wise, once you sell it.
We were lucky. Sometimes we actually made more money than just holding onto it. Sometimes you have to go through the hurdle, even though in the end the property value went up. Our wealth looked a lot better. Our balance sheet looked better. However, during the time dealing with tenant, for example, with noise issues, with drug issues, or not taking out the garbage.
Sometimes it's not just about the money. I've found the hardest thing is not seeing the end, seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. So for me, it's tenant issue. And for things like refinance or the bank didn't come for appraisal on time, which is common these days and some people depend on that reappraisal to take the equity out for the next project.
I've found that as long as the deal is good, you can find other investors to fund the deals or help you keep going. However, as things you cannot control. Like how long the premise will take, how long will the hearing take, how long will it take you to book the sheriff? That kind of thing. That to me is the biggest hurdle.
Laurel Simmons: Now you wrote a book about helping or helping investors, right? To help investors. Invest in real estate. So tell us about that.
Brooke Shang: And I think everything has a goal. So for my book, I have a goal for myself. I have a goal for the reader. I want the investors or potential investors to feel comfortable to get started at least. So the first three chapters is all about mindset, is it is related to real estate. However, the mindset about you have to set a goal strong enough. So when I talk about the hurdles I have to go through, it all seems like something you can solve or you can overcome because your goal is it doesn't matter, or you're motivated to find ways to solve these problems.
So that's what mainly my book is about. Then I get into the strategy after I set you up with the foundation. Then I get into the. Kind of strategies I was in, I wasn't even able to get into all the strategies cuz there's so many ways to pivot, so many ways to structure a deal. So I got into lease option, which was my main strategy, and then got into creative financing wholesaling.
And that's basically how I started. And I think if you're new, just reading the book, that's how I started. Didn't take that long. I take people step by step, set the goals, set yourself up, and then start your strategy. So it's always goal-oriented strategy, market and property. So that's how I set it up in my book.
Paul Copcutt: What made you want to write a book in the first place, Brooke and now obviously get involved in coaching.
Brooke Shang: In the first place actually. My son actually wrote the book with me, so I wanted to show him that it could be done. It's funny, I wrote the book the weekend. It was actually career week, career day, and my son Choses to come to work with me now, my husband.
I thought I'm gonna show him what it is. Like I have multiple streams of income. I wanna show him that at least. So in the morning, I took him to my day. He went through the whole facility, sat down with different people. Then I was looking at what's, what else is available that day to show him what entrepreneurs do.
So in the afternoon there was a shop about writing a book, and it's actually mainly about branding. So the goal is, so Paul that's your specialty. The goal of writing a book is usually to brand yourself. So I went there. They actually encourage young people to do it. So if you're under 16, The coaching and everything is only half.
So I actually encouraged my son to do it and then he said, why don't you do it? So we were each other's accountability partner and I always knew I had something to stay and being on the podcast or even on stage at the right club and everything really, I had something to share. So I knew I had something to write.
It wouldn't be hard. However, it's really. down and finding the time and thinking that I could write this. So for me it's also to keep something for the next generation. My dad actually wrote a book however, back in the day, it's a lot harder than us today as self-published, but back in the days, You have to print you and you have to commit to selling this many in the first print, second print, that kind of thing.
So I actually felt lucky. It's everything is so much easier now, and with the coach, with the software that help us to write and basically I can just speak to my phone and it writes out for me. I just transported to Word and change a few things, then a few pages. So there's no reason why I cannot do it while I'm waiting in line somewhere on the subway or just sitting in the car waiting for my kids out of their activities and things like that.
So for personally, even real estate is about learning, so I wanna make sure. I learned how to do this. The process basically said you could do this in a matter of two months, three months. So I wanna test it out. And my son actually finished it too. I didn't tell him, I said, your program is only 10 months if you don't finish it.
We're. We're never gonna finish it and they're not gonna help you but you, you can actually extend the program. However, the point is we set a timeframe and we got to do it. And it's funny, I've read a quote this morning. Your goal is basically setting standard for yourself. So if you say, This task takes two months.
It takes two months. If you say it takes a year, it takes a year. So that kind of proves that concept as well. If we say we're gonna do it a year, that's our standard, that's our goal. So it's achievable. So for me, one thing is to leave something behind, to keep a legacy as my father did. And on the other hand, the goal is for the reader to go through this same journey with me and set themself.
Laurel Simmons: I love, it's interesting that you say that the about goals are really your standards. Because another way of saying that is no matter what you say, you're right. . If you say, I can do this in six months, you're right. If you say, I can't do this in six months guess what?
You're right. Yeah. It's pretty simple, isn't it? And people make it, it really complicated.
Paul Copcutt: Yes. Is that goal setting advice, is that something that you now pass on to investors and say, here's how to go about setting goals, putting those kind of self mindset parameters in there?
Brooke Shang: Yes. There's so many different things behind goal setting, I think. And sometimes I beat myself up in the past if I didn't achieve it or if I achieve it, then I beat myself thinking. Did I said too low. You always have that doubt. Did I leave money on the table? Meaning I could have done more and asked for more and I didn't.
And now I think as long as you set it up, that makes sense to you. So say for example I always use what, what's happening to me at the moment that kind of resonates with me the most. So right now I'm building our future home. So if I'm saying I need another $600, for example, in cash flow to support the extra mortgage on that house, That's the kind of thing I'm gonna set my goals for.
So yes, it has to be very specific and a lot of students are saying, I want two doors. I wanna buy a multi-family at least five doors. That's not a goal. I think that they're just setting something empty. And even when you talk about it, you don't feel the passion behind it when you go a little bit deeper asking.
Then why that is? Why do you want two doors? Why do you want two lease option deals? Oh, I just wanna see. I can do it. Or I just wanna say I have done it. That's not enough. You really have to. take a step back saying, what does this goal do to me? Everything we were talking about, either a book or yo using lease option or utilizing different real estate strategy to reach a goal really has to go back a step.
Paul Copcutt: We've reached the point in the podcast where we have our lightning. Oh, that's, it's exciting. It's so quick questions and whatever comes to mind first. Okay. Give us your first answer. Okay.
Paul Copcutt: What is the best advice you've ever received From an investor or at a networking meeting?
Brooke Shang: Oh, wow. Same thing, actuallly. I will give to other people. actually, you know what? The most recent one, learn like you're gonna die.
Laurel Simmons: Yeah, that really puts it in perspective, doesn't it? Yeah. Okay. What's your favorite resource for real estate investing? And it could be anything, it can be a book, it could be networking, a person, or an event. But what's your go-to resource? ,
Brooke Shang: I will say books, a lot of books, podcast, YouTube, . Actually, there are few people that I follow. For example, if I'm focusing on speaking, then I will go to a few people just focusing on somebody who is really good at communication. Okay.
Paul Copcutt: And what is the one attribute that you feel has made you most successful?
Brooke Shang: I think just constantly learning. Being humble. Know that you don't know everything. I've also seen people think they, they know everything and act that way. However, I personally think if you're growing, you always have to be humble and learn learning, constantly be humble and constantly learn. Yes.
Laurel Simmons: Okay, so here's the last question. I think we've touched on it a little bit, but I really would like to know what's the hardest thing that you've had to learn as a real estate investor? Wow.
Brooke Shang: Hardest thing. Fear. Have to overcome Fear. The fear could be self-doubt mostly. Okay. Yeah. That doesn't go away and that's actually part of it. You just learn to manage.
Laurel Simmons: Yeah, that's a good point. You're right. Yeah. That's good advice. Yeah, it's people, successful people do it in spite of, right? Yeah. They don't stop because of fear. They just keep going. Yeah. Exactly. All right, so Brooke how can people reach you?
Brooke Shang: It's so easy cuz there's only one Brooke Shang. Now nobody else has my first and last name. Any social media type in Brooke Shang, you can reach. Or just Brooke, trust your talent.ca by email. Oh,
Laurel Simmons: and tell us the title of your book. What is that?
Brooke Shang: Financial Freedom, the Royal Way. Royal way because my coach mentioned that I actually travel a lot. So she said, oh, you're living your lifestyle like a royal. So financial freedom, the royal way, I have time freedom.
Laurel Simmons: Oh, there you go. That's a pretty good goal. Yeah. Time freedom. Absolutely. . Okay. Yes. Thank you so very much, Brooke. And we wish you all the best and we'll see you at more regular events and I know you're around, so until next time.
Brooke Shang: Thank you.
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