Francois Lanthier: Black Jack Contracting, Jon Tenbrinke began his first steps to becoming an electrician in high school, and at 24, he became the Youngest Master Electrician in Ontario's history. Jon started Black Jack Contracting on a bet with a colleague that he would provide a real estate investor focused contracting service. With better communications, scheduling, and quality of work, boy has he won that bet.
An expert general contractor Black Jack contracting, specializes in and has completed hundreds of duplex conversions, as well as flips, flip renovations and upgrades throughout Ontario. Tonight Jon is focusing on renovations, timelines and budgets and is including a duplex case study with everything that's affected the supply chain labor and markets over these past two years. The factoring in of conversions and renovations are potential deal makers, breakers, and I know that personally . So welcome Jon. Thank you for joining us.
Jon Tenbrinke: It's been too long.
Francois Lanthier: Yes. What are some of the renovation trends you're seeing right now? So we've seen all the issues, but maybe there's some new things going on that you'd like to share.
Jon Tenbrinke: Can everybody see this okay?
Francois Lanthier: Yes.
Jon Tenbrinke: All right. I made this, so I'm gonna go with it. Normally I like to wing it. So you know what, it's been, obviously we're coming down off the two craziest years of most of our lives and especially in the renovation business.
Now we're starting to see these things settle down for once. It's not all doom and gloom like I've been saying for the last couple years. We're seeing things starting to settle in pricing, availability, and things are starting to become slightly easier in our business, which is weird to say after a couple years.
You know what? The market for all of us has changed so much over the last, six to eight months because. Going at the beginning of the year and last year you really couldn't lose. It was just the values kept going up and so you could renovate to your heart's extent.
You can convert, you can do all these crazy things, and you keep getting the evaluations. That's died down. So we're having to be more strategic now. So one of the biggest trends we're seeing is scaling back the size of renovations and really focusing on strategic renovations, more cosmetics, more turn and burn type things. Not long projects. Conversions are still going strong, but they're not near as much as they were a year ago.
Its people are looking at more strategic renos than they were full scale renovations. We're seeing it dialed back quite a bit. Now that doesn't mean they're not doing bigger projects, but we're seeing a lot more obviously budget conscious because of what's going on with the interest rates and purchase prices.
That's one of the biggest things we're seeing. We're seeing a lot of people wanting to more stay in their home now versus, moving and stuff like that. So that's causing, a lot more home renovations that we were seeing. People were doing that during the pandemic, but they were also looking to buy or sell.
That's changed quite a bit and on a fun style, the styles are changing. We're seeing, everybody loved the grays over the last couple years and now we're starting to see whites and we're starting to see dark floors. But it's been a really interesting and fun time.
Francois Lanthier: Very good. And what's your favorite so far? As far as new trends go?
Jon Tenbrinke: You know what? I was a big Grace fan, but you know what? People are starting to look at more flare, a little more style. There was so many units built, so we're starting to see a lot more details put in feature walls, a little more features, really focusing on the tenant comfort and UpSpring is style.
It's been a lot of fun. We're doing a lot more interesting things. We're changing up tile styles and floor styles. We're seeing a lot more. Fixture upgrades and stuff like that, as you can see on the bottom right hand corner. So it's been really interesting because of the competition, the way the rents have gone, we're seeing people really focus on the lifestyle of the tenant, which is, pretty nice to see compared to, just getting them in there. People are doing, landlords are doing a really good job of that nowadays and it's been a lot of fun.
Francois Lanthier: It makes sense. People are spending a lot more time at home with hybrid work and different things happening. So you want to be in a nicer space while before maybe it was just a place to crash at night. Very different.
Jon Tenbrinke: It's, people are also really thinking about the home office space nowadays, which is, nice to see. So it's been dual spaces and stuff like that.
Francois Lanthier: Dual function and all that. That's great. So what are three things every rental property needs and at tenant turnover? That's a big one cause we've renovated, we've added basement suite they look great and then people leave. What's next?
Jon Tenbrinke: Almost every tenant turnover you're gonna need to do painting in the property. There's no ways around it. It gets beat up and painting gives you great value and a great pop for what you're doing. Using dural materials obviously will make a big difference, but especially with going into the lighter painted colors that people seem to like. We're seeing a lot of white paint colors lately. So it gets dirty and it gets beat up really soon.
Francois Lanthier: Not forgiving.
Jon Tenbrinke: That's right. Yeah, so painting is a big one and you should plan to do that almost every tenant lifestyle. The next one's not so much renovations, but it's maintenance on the property. Things, get worn down. Check your faucets, check your heating system, check your filters. Make sure the windows are in good shape. Make sure the flooring's not damaged. You make sure the sinks aren't leaking, so it's more maintenance stuff on a tenant. Turn over, like new caulking, all that stuff, not so much.
Hopefully. You obviously had a good tenant. They didn't beat up the place too bad cause unfortunately we've all seen not too many times. But in a good situation it's more, get the maintenance done, make sure it's clean, functional, safe, and warm for the next tenants. If you're using durable materials during your renovation, you really should just have to be doing that.
This one's probably the most boring one, but it's true, is just like places always need a good, deep clean from a professional cleaner. You don't want to bring it into that. We want to go through everything, cupboards all that stuff, check your drains, and then, you know what, if it's done well and all that stuff, it really should be a quick and easy tenant turnover.
Francois Lanthier: It makes sense. It's protecting your investment. As you mentioned, caulking might seem painful, but then you're preventing or stopping water infiltration, so you're protecting that nice tub you put in maybe three years ago. From future wear and tear. Future replacement, I guess so, is that something your team does as well?
Jon Tenbrinke: We do anything with our customers. It's more for our existing customers that we'll do into the maintenance stuff. But most of the time we promote and we really think about durable material, so it's not really breaking down too fast. Painting is always one. Now, when it comes to stuff like that hiring a gc, for painting is probably not the most cost effective way. So we usually will set our clients up with with our painters, but things like that and some clients love to be hands on and get painting yourself because everybody enjoys painting. Or if you're like me, you hate painting, but you wanna save the money and things like that. For sure.
Francois Lanthier: Great. So yeah, that's another budget tip there. You mentioned about painting and cleaning as well. I guess you could hire a housekeeper or someone else, do you have some tips for that deep cleaning on a bit of a budget?
Jon Tenbrinke: Yes. You want cleaners? Professional cleaners are not crazy expensive and they're gonna do it in three or four hours where it's gonna take us two days. And I always like to tell our investors and our customers is You gotta value your time too. So if you don't mind doing, getting the hands dirty, you got the Saturday night off, go right ahead.
If you're busy, you got a busy lifestyle. A typical professional cleaner's gonna cost you about 200 bucks to bring them in and wipe out and give a deep cleaning to the unit. Talk to your power team. Usual. All of us have, professional cleaners in our our Rolodex, and it'll make your life easy.
Francois Lanthier: Yes, I love it. And yeah, respect your time cause time is not replaceable. So Yeah, if it's 200 bucks, it's $200 very well spent. You don't wanna be dusting lights and all kinds of things. So John, what are a couple of key renovations that add value right away? Cause you mentioned earlier strategic renovations, maybe not. A whole gut job. Unless you have shag carpet everywhere, then yeah you're in it for a big one. But let's say the house is decent. What would you suggest.
Jon Tenbrinke: The honest to is number one, we talked about it before, is you, is painting adds the best value right away and it gets you the best return on investment. That's one that's gonna be quick. The bathrooms of the home are, very important for tenants. Everybody likes to have a nice, clean, safe, warm and functioning bathroom.
Bathrooms typically can be renovated on a in a half decent budget. It's not like as long as we're talking about a half decent home that's in decent shape you really should be able to renovate a bathroom for a reasonable number, and that's gonna also give you the best Definitely rental rent increase, but on a refi purposes as well.
Bathrooms are number one of the number ones, and obviously the next one is, now, this one's usually a little bit bigger, but it doesn't always have to be as the kitchens, a lot of times it's not about replacing the cabinets or replacing everything that's in it. You can use existing if long they're in good shape cabinets, you can paint them, you could restore them, you could do hardware, new countertops, new black splash, and you can make the place look brand new again without going into the tens of thousands of dollars to replace a kitchen.
Plumbing, fixtures, sinks, all that stuff like they're all things that it can be done in decent budget, but that's gonna give you huge value. Rent and refi kitchen. Everybody loves a good kitchen. Flooring is another one. Flooring is one that if you are, just picking up a property and it's got old carpet or it's got beat up flooring.
Putting a good high quality, I'm a big fan of vinyl flooring will be fast, it'll be relatively inexpensive compared to bigger renovations, and it's gonna give you a huge bang for your buck right away. So I think those are my top four for really quick strategic renos. Things like lighting fixtures, receptacles. Plumbing fixtures. All the things that aren't huge renovations that can be updated quickly can sure make the place pop for a decent budget.
Francois Lanthier: Great tips, especially the receptacles. That's something a lot of people emit. But at some older homes, it's been painted over and now it looks all grubby and worn and it's the little old fashion.
Jon Tenbrinke: Not to mention it's gonna save you from potential dangerous situations, potential shock hazards, potential fires now, God forbid, but that's pretty major. But I've seen it. Obviously I'm an electrician, but things like that are not expensive. And they actually make the place pop and it's gonna make your tenants a safer place to live.
Francois Lanthier: On your insurance policy, they always ask when you're getting a cloth, when was the electrical updated? Does that count as an electrical update?
Jon Tenbrinke: It's part of an electrical update. Usually they're more worried about the the wiring, but making sure all that stuff is in good working condition is huge.
Francois Lanthier: You've had to do that. Once you open it and you start playing with things, then I guess somebody had to make sure everything's safe when you replace things.
Jon Tenbrinke: That's right.
Francois Lanthier: Great strategy and lighting. Yeah, that's huge. I studied interior design if everybody knows. And lighting, Yeah. Makes a huge difference. Just even if you're on a really shoestring budget, change to higher wattage, light bulb. It makes a big difference. Obviously you want to paint and do other things, but let's say you have $5, that's it.
I hope that's not your typical client, but just changing bulbs and making sure everything's clean and bright, it makes it look way better. So that's great. Jon, can you tell us how can hiring a contractor help your budget and timeline and why not just GC it yourself, like some people just want to do it. What's the difference?
Jon Tenbrinke: This one we're gonna try to condense into a subject, but the contractor subject is obviously a very difficult one in the world we live in. Because as I've said here on this channel before is that contracting is the world's worst business. The problem is it's got extreme level barrier to entry.
Everybody, all of a sudden be a contractor. I even have the story of myself. I was an electrician one day and I was DC the next day. But here's the difference when you're hiring a good contractor that you've vetted properly, is that we are 99% problem solvers. Cause there's always problems during renovations, obviously planning renovation, especially major renovation.
It takes a skill set that not most people have. Now, there's some people that I've seen do it themselves fantastically, and those are the ones that they have to make a decision on time versus reward. So typically a markup from a general contractor is going to be somewhere between, 25% and 40% depending on who you're working with.
That's saying that if you do this, your. You can, more than likely gonna save 25 to 40% of the cost. But the question in return is how much time are you going to have to invest? So on a duplex conversion, which is a great comparison that takes us. Typically three months to do one from start to finish a construction timeline.
Someone who's doing the project management slash organizing of the project needs to dedicate about 20 hours per week for minimum 12 weeks to run it effectively. It has to be at site meetings and spectrum meetings, organizing trades, materials, all that stuff. So if you were a busy lifestyle, you got a young family, you got a professional job.
Can you do this? Can you dedicate 20 hours a week to the project? Could you make more money going to source your next deal? Could you make more money than what you do for a living versus spending that 25% to 40% on a general contractor? Another one is obviously avoiding the mistakes. Recently I went out to save Thomas to help a gentleman who was trying to run his own duplex conversion, has been working on it for two months, has spent, multi thousands of dollars.
I walked in the basement and said, You have to rip every single thing you've done out here. It'll never pass in a billion years. So he's basically wasted three months and $20,000 because he just didn't have the knowledge to run a duplex conversion, and that's not his fault. That's never done it before. This is where avoiding cost mistakes is do you have to ask yourself, do you have the skill set or do you have the knowledge yet to run this project effectively?
Cause if you don't, you can do it like thrust and you can learn from your mistakes, but you're gonna spend the money and time to do and that's not always a bad thing. But most of the time it is. And in a timeline is another one is that you know what professionals can get these things done in a few months if you don't have full time to dedicate to this or you don't have a team behind you that this three month project can start going six to nine months, which we've seen a ton of time.
Then you're talking. Lost opportunity value. You're talking lost rent, lost refi interest rates keep going up. Do you miss the window before they go up again? All those things. That's all part of your decision making process. The process the managing the construction process effectively is there's an ordered operations to most construction projects to make sure they go smoothly.
If you don't have someone managing it in that timeframe to make sure materials and inspections and all that is coordinate. At the same time, this is how timelines and budgets get thrown out the window. And then building code knowledge inspections. Obviously, I've done 256 duplex conversions.
I'm gonna have a pretty good knowledge of how it all works. Or if someone's learning, they might have to take the time to learn it. Now I'm not saying it's rocket science cause it's not. And it just takes some experience in practicing and advice, but this is why. Most people will choose to hire a contractor.
Some will not have the budget because they didn't plan right, Or they got bad advice or something like that. And then they try to do it themselves and they usually regret it. But in saying that, I've seen some people that have no contracting experience also run a very nice project. So it really, you have to be honest with yourself.
That's really the main reasons why you're going to hire a contractor after you've done obviously your proper vetting and all that stuff to make sure you got a good one. Cause bad ones will cost more than that too, but those are my main reasons.
Francois Lanthier: Great. And I would add to that contacts as well. So in certain municipalities for permitting and things, it's good to know exactly who to talk to. I live in Ottawa and yeah, I noticed some people get their permits very quick. They seem to have insider trades or information or they know exactly how the file should be submitted. So I think that's great value. So what's your area of work? You mentioned St. Thomas. How far does your team go?
Jon Tenbrinke: Our primary area is Brantford, Hamilton, Burlington, all of Niagara. We've done some things in London. I try to keep it closer to home, the last little late, last little while. But we do help people. We've done Kitchener Waterloo we've done London. We've done St. Thomas, Peterborough, all those places, Belleville.
Right now I'm trying to focus in my primary just because it's a different world we're in right now. So I prefer to stay in our area, but we also do a bunch of consulting. So we have a, that project I told you where the gentleman had to rip it all out, so we're actually going to consult with him. I'm gonna help him get through all the inspections and all that stuff and help him run it themselves. So it's just basically a consulting package that we can teach 'em through the process too, so that we do quite a bit all over the place too.
Francois Lanthier: It's a great strategy cause sometimes you, some people want to do it, they want to be hands on, so it's nothing wrong. But if you're accompanied by professionals, then that's way better than. Yeah, being told you have to remove everything. So this leads me to our next question. What should we remember when we're house hunting or looking for that property where you wanna add a suite? Not all properties are suited for that. So what are your tips and tricks?
Jon Tenbrinke: The key thing in this subject is to know, what is your strategy going to be with a place whether you're looking at a conversion, a flip, a buy and hold, all those things. Because if you look at the red house in the middle, there is a perfect example. A customer of mine purchase that home under the context that it was a legal, nonconforming, duplex spot the place.
Everything was closed and found out, no, you can't have a duplex there and had to convert it back to a single family home, which make it a very un lucrative investment. It ended up losing money on the deal, so another customer bought it and we turned it in. We just renovated to a single family home. He was able to make it work, but that's the exact point I'm trying to make is that the due diligence process when buying a home, especially if you're looking at a conversion, is the most important part of it.
Every city has different bylaws. The building codes are supposed to be the same, but not everybody runs it the same. It's very important to do a lot of research and you can avoid all that if you want, if you just have a power team. If you have a great realtor, a great contractor, and a great B C I N designer on your team where you can make a phone call and get all the information you need, I highly recommend that versus trying to do it yourself.
Again, if you want one of those people who like the thing, it's just, okay. First thing is zoning is the area you're looking at going to allow you to do the strategy you want. And then once you've done that and say you are working on a conversion. Okay, so obviously we're looking at entrances, possibility, parking requirements, ceiling heights, overall condition.
One of the bigger things that sorry. Is area versus condition of the home. I'd much rather buy a really bad home in a decent area than buy a really good home in a crappy area, if you know what I'm talking about. So that's where, again I promote crap outta power teams just to save you the headache.
It doesn't take much to build a power tv just, referrals and we do a lot of virtual consulting where my customers will send us. Packages of photos with, of a potential property through email or by text and we give 'em our opinion on the site so they can make somewhat more of an educated decision.
Realtors are a sensitive subject, I've worked with lots of great realtors and there's a lot of investment focus realtors, which I'm always gonna promote that you guys do. I've seen the situations. Where a bad advice from a realtor that did not focus on thing has cost customers hundreds of thousands of dollars.
I just went through one in Welland where a customer was told that by a realtor from out of town that this could be converted to a legal triplex when it couldn't. And they end up losing 300,000 on the property cause they bought it during the height. And that's what happens when you work with the wrong person.
My recognition is, number one is have a great realtor that knows the area you wanna work in and knows the strategy you wanna work in. So the, just in this group alone, you could find dozens of great realtors. Contractors, same thing. There is a difference between a regular contractor and an investment focused contractor.
There is a difference. The strategies, the timelines, the permitting process is specialty to what we do, and it's important to have one of those guys on your team. There's a lot of good contractors. There's more bad than good, but there's a lot of good contractors too, especially in this space, especially in this group.
Those are the main things I'd like to promote. And just, know the area type thing. We wanna make sure that the zoning's number one, but you gotta also gotta look at potential for problems in the neighborhood with rentals, cause you know it, if you go into a newer neighborhood that was, filled with a lot of older generations that are finally starting to think you will get a lot of push backs on. Building second suites and duplexes.
We had one last year where the poor guy was doing a duplex and because the neighbor next door was really mad, they were building a duplex, he ended up failing variance applications and end up having to change the whole process and took way longer than we wanted to. It's something to think about.
Francois Lanthier: I guess you don't want to be the first one in the neighborhood. You don't wanna be like number 40, but you want to have others struggle and then, Okay, my neighbor did it, the other one did it. So it's easier for you. That's been great. So thank you so much Jon, for sharing a bit of your experience your wealth of knowledge. You have a budget? Perfect. Let's talk about that one cause I was curious about it.
Jon Tenbrinke: Oh yeah, so we have a little duplex presentation. This was a property in Stony Creek and this is how we presented how everything's gonna go for the customer. We have some customers that are very well versed in renovations. You don't need to do all this stuff, but when you get into someone who's not done a lot of projects, All the numbers are important to understand because these are expensive projects these days.
There's no way around it. Budgets have gone up by crazy amounts, so trying to get an understanding of where their budget's going to be allocated, which lets them make some decisions. This poverty right here was a potential duplex conversion. They were actually gonna move into the main floor for a while they were building a home. And wanted to do some nicer rentals to the main floor. Nice versus wants is gonna be harder for someone to understand that's not in the business.
This is how we're gonna present it cause the basement suite, there's not a lot of fruity stuff that goes in the basement. Most of it is necessary. So we wanna present that in the main floor. So if they're asking how much is versus the basement versus the main floor, and what if we did this and This is how you wanna present it because comparing scopes of work with your contractors and apples to apples versus orange oranges is so important. And I think that's where most of the mistakes are made. But also is okay, do we want to spend money on the main floor yet? So at least Alyssa will let where the dollars are going.
This one right here, when we first show up, everybody has the champagne taste, but the beer budget, right? We wanna renovate an entire main floor, open up, structured walls, quarts, countertops, all the fancy stuff we wanna do, new base. We wanna put new rooms, we want put new siding through the house, new concrete pavers, new all this and stuff.
Then when you show up to them with a $354,000 budget. They're like, What? So this is why, you kind of show, you gotta understand the numbers a little bit and realize that what are the wants versus needs? You start with the wants, then if you have any money left over, which no one ever does, and then you get into the needs and then you have to make decisions.
This is an example. We like to, everybody likes numbers. This is a numbers group, we do this for the customers nowadays, it shows 'em how their budgets lay down. Hope everybody enjoys it and with how the numbers work out for a typical project.
Francois Lanthier: That's excellent. Gives us a good idea of the breakdown. And as you mentioned, a basement suite. If there's nothing, you can't really cut out. Anything that out, I'll cloud on materials, but you might regret it in the long term.
Jon Tenbrinke: You will regret it in the long term. Yeah!
Francois Lanthier: That's most likely. Wonderful. Thank you so much, Jon. And please stick around for the virtual networking where our guests.
Katherine Nelson-Riley: We've got a couple of questions, Francois.
Francois Lanthier: Ok for some reason I don't see them.
Katherine Nelson-Riley: I had one come in because somebody couldn't get in. They're having technical difficulties.
Francois Lanthier: Oh, you're all them?
Katherine Nelson-Riley: Yes, they were actually talking about your budget breakdown. With everything that is on there, what is the one thing they need to look at the most and be aware of?
Jon Tenbrinke: I tell you the truth, the budget breakdown is more of a visual for you to understand. What I'd like to promote the most is making sure, cause I see it quite often is that there's this thing called a bait and switch, and I've talked about this in a previous thing. At work. A lot of contractors will go in with the number to meet your budget, but does that budget include everything you need done?
Most of the time it doesn't. So when I talk about a scope of work, handing a price on the back of a business card or having a quote says, Renovate kitchen. Is not good enough because if you get a price from me, that's 20,000. You get a price from the next guy that's 10,000. There's something already automatically wrong because I'm not making $10,000 on that job.
This is where I always, we try to get people to really do deep research into their projects before they choose the contractor, because are you comparing apples to apples? So when you get your two quotes in front of. You want to make sure that everything that needs to be done is actually included in that, and they're not just giving you the base price.
They're gonna ask more for this. They're gonna ask more for that. I would say, and by a landslide, that's the most decision, most importance going into a decision maker. Do not get fooled by seeing this crazy low end price that would make you so happy to pay versus the other one without.
It might actually be true. I've seen it, but the point of the matter is you gotta make sure you're gonna get everything you want to need and more. Before you decide on the pricing, it's not just about the number, it's making sure you're actually getting what you want for the number.
These representations right here are great to know where your dollars are gonna be allocated and let you know if you need to cut out on something. Say maybe I don't need new kitchens that's gonna save me 9.6% of this money. That's a great decision maker, but that's not, This is just for visual for the project we're presenting to. Where you're spending your money on. And then the other one is, what I'm talking about is I think by far and more important than any of this stuff.
Katherine Nelson-Riley: Wow. That's the good points. Really good points. My husband is a contractor. He doesn't do what you do. But one of the things he always says, and there's always the add-ons. There's always add-ons with it and you always budget for more time and more money.
Jon Tenbrinke: That's right but the difference between some and most are you gonna have the discussion about the add-ons before they happen? And so I have been encouraged in the past by people that used to be on my team that I should go in at the budget they want and then if they don't include it, but I can't do it and I just have a moral issue against it.
It's completely legal as long as it's on paper, whatever that's on the paper. This is why I'm talking about scope of works, because whatever's on paper is what they owe you. Just cause you assumed you were getting something, if it isn't written down, they don't owe it to you and they won't win it in the battle in court. So this is why that stuff's important.
Katherine Nelson-Riley: Also for the add-ons. Like I know that when we've had work done, like I've had work done and when my husband does work and anybody that has an add-on that is outside of that scope on that list, you literally, the work stops and then that add-on is done. And then it is signed by everybody in dated.
Jon Tenbrinke: Change orders are usually something that's going to, one, they have to be paid in full on most people's contracts because it's going to affect the existing renovation. And number two is that it's going to add time to your project. So a lot of times what people will forget is, okay, they understand it's going to take money to do this change order. What they don't understand is it's going to extend the renovation timeline. So that's one. Don't forget.
Katherine Nelson-Riley: That's true too. We've got some questions that have come in, but I do have one more that this sure person that I'm working with here. And I don't know whether this is one, I did see that a male from Windrows group was in the audience. But they just wanted to know what they had to, what they needed to know about financing. Like if there was anything special that they needed to know about financing their renovation.
Jon Tenbrinke: I'm gonna definitely pass, I know a little bit. I'm definitely gonna pass off the details to someone that's an expert. Some contractors will offer financing we do but it's limited. So we have a service through finance and it's up to a hundred thousand. I've actually had multiple investors use it cuz it was a great short term funding gap before a sailor or refi.
Unfortunately nowadays with renovation prices, say this project for example, it's way too large to be using like our financing service. And most of the time this is done through helos and lines of credits and I'm gonna leave that to a financial expert. But there is ways to strategically financies this stuff.
Sometimes contractors offer financing, sometimes it's done through the bank. Plus improvements was big a couple years ago that I've seen die off a bit. But again, we'll ask, we'll let Emil answer that question. And it'll give him a mil crap, cause he was supposed to finish the group with me. And then other thing we were doing a meal. You know what I'm talking about?
Katherine Nelson-Riley: I love it. So we've got a question here from Jerry. And I hope I'm pronouncing that name right And is what is a typical wait time? If I have a property, can you start in a couple weeks or do you have your backlog and the wait time is a couple months?
Jon Tenbrinke: Contractor backlog is actually another big issue. We can go in for days, but for us, we do it in a system. So usually because we're working with real estate investors, we're involved from the beginning of the project or close to when they purchase the home, where they're purchasing the homes. We're involved from the beginning or at least part of it. But if you don't, if that's not the case for us, we go through a five-step process, from the beginning to end.
We do discovery. We do a virtual consultation. We'll go through everything together. Then we'll do a site visit and we'll do a ballpark, and then we get into a design agreement, in which we're putting everything together and picking materials, and then finally a contract. That can go as fast as two weeks with us.
Let's say that does take two weeks for us, usually for our customers. We're starting from the time the contract is signed, we're starting the active construction within three to four weeks. For bigger projects. It does take some time, obviously, to plan and hire and get everything organized for a large project.
We've started projects faster, but I find this is the best system. So I don't really have a backlog maximum because of the way these projects are designed is that they're done in the system. So if a project is in demolition, one is in framing type thing. So I've done up to 23 projects at once. It wasn't smart and you pull your hair, I probably didn't sleep for a month, but I like to run five or six at a time. Each contractor's gonna have their own way.
Some don't do more than one, some don't, nor two. So whoever you're working with, it's a great conversation piece to have of how you handle it. Because there's, for a smaller company, Too many projects can't get done. They're mostly reliant on the owner. They don't have the team behind them. Doesn't mean they're not gonna be great contractors. They probably are.
If you're working with a medium sized company like us those kind of guys, they have bigger teams, they can handle more things, that their backlogs are gonna be different in the workload, they can be different.
It's a great question and I would definitely recommend having that discussion with all potential suitors that you're gonna hire for contractors, cause each company's gonna have their own different answer. But basically for the sort of firm answer for me is that by time you sign a contract with me, we're typically going three weeks later.
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