Sarah Larbi: REITE Club Nation. Welcome to this week's podcast episode. I'm Sarah Larbi, and I'm here today with Alfonso Salemi. I really enjoyed today's podcast with Diane Ulman from Integris Law and we really talk about so many things from a legal standpoint and a real estate investing standpoint. I think it's a great informational podcast.
Diane's been a REITE Club member part of the community for many years. And, it's so nice to be able to hear a, her story, but also from, a lawyer standpoint. So many awesome insights that we can apply today to our real estate investing business. So I hope you guys enjoy today's podcast. Don't forget, leave a rating, leave a review. And register for free to create your profile and get access to so much more at thereiteclub.com. Let's bring in Diane.
Alfonso Salemi: Welcome to The REITE Club podcast. We have Diane Allman from Integris Law. Welcome. We're so excited to have you on here today.
Diane Ulman: Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be here.
Alfonso Salemi: That's great. As we were just getting prepared to start recording, we're talking about this year it's been it seems oh, the last little while, last year and a bit all different types of changes come along with real estate and all the different things in terms of schedules and how we're managing and working from home and still doing everything that we can.
I know typically the law society's one of older, antiquated systems that always takes a little bit longer to get up to date, but they've done a great job. But you know what, I'm really excited to dig deep, learn all about you. So if you can give us a little bit of an introduction for those that are listening your background and yeah what you do on a day-to-day basis.
Diane Ulman: I'm Diane Ulman. I'm a founding partner and co-owner of Integris Law. We are, now we can say we are a province-wide residential real estate law firm, and I say province-wide because that was one of the huge benefits of covid, is that the banks most of the banks allow electronic signatures on mortgage documents.
Now, I'd say 99% of our closing meetings with clients are done virtually on Zoom. And so it has made our practice extremely flexible. We can offer, evening and weekend client appointments, and you don't even have to count the commute in the appointment time anymore. So it's been quite great.
Sarah Larbi: That's one of the best things that came about from a legal standpoint, is to be able to do everything on Zoom. You print it off, you just show them like, you're like every everything is done. You don't have to go anywhere. It just makes it so much more simple and how long have you been practicing law for?
Diane Ulman: I've been a lawyer called in Ontario for over 10 years now, and I originally started in litigation and I honestly, I had a blast doing it. I loved my appearances in court. But the balance between the number of hours you spend by yourself at a desk in front of a keyboard, drafting endless documents to the amount of time you spend in court, it's probably a factor of 10 hours, 15 hours of prep time to maybe an hour in court.
I'm much more of a people person, so I ended up switching over to residential real estate cause it's just a lot more client facing and I actually call it Happy log cause people are usually really excited about buying or selling or even if they're refinancing and paying off a whole bunch of debt, they're happy to get that weight off them. So it's a very, it's a much different experience and I love it
Alfonso Salemi: That's fantastic. And I wanna back it up just one second because when real estate law, you guys unfortunately get, sometimes get lumped in with, closing costs and legal fees and it's like a line item when investors are, doing their due diligence on a deal.
What does a real estate lawyer. , do you know? I think I have good ideas. I know Sarah's worked with, and has your ideas, but what does a real estate lawyer actually do when we're, doing the closings and the legal fees? What are we actually paying for?
Diane Ulman: Right on. Honestly, we're the last top on the deal. So a lot of times our work is I'm saying overlook. Only because it's a bit of a black box. You just show up on a Zoom meeting with your lawyer. Now you sign some documents. All of a sudden your name's on the title. And we were just, like you said an expense line on a account sheet.
The point is this question, what does a real estate lawyer do was actually asked to me by a family, friend's four year old this summer and it's nothing. Yeah it's quite something to have a four year old kind of question, your whole existence and how do you like, boil it down so a kid can understand what you do every day.
Really there's areas. So really when a real estate deal is about to close we're confirming three things. We're making sure the right people are signing all of the documents. We're making sure the right people are involved, especially if we're talking about a corporation that's either buying or selling.
If there's multiple directors, Are enough directors signing all of the documents, cause some of those articles of incorporation, say two of three directors need to sign everything. We're confirming that. Number two, we're confirming information about the property itself. So that's probably what most people think a real estate lawyer does is check the title, make sure there isn't anything unusual, any odd encumbrances, liens, all of those things.
We're double checking that. And then the last thing is we're confirming the money. So there's always money involved. We're basically holding the money between, if I'm on the buyer's side I'm holding our buyer's funds, mortgage funds and some of their cash, and then I'm transferring it to the seller's lawyers.
The point is, you've got two complete strangers. Transferring a lot of money. We're pretty much the middle people transferring the funds, but also we're confirming where that money is coming from. We're making sure that your mortgage terms are what you expected, what you thought you signed originally with the bank, or the private lender or whomever. So we're just making sure that everything is good to go.
Sarah Larbi: That's a very good symbol explanation that, like you said you just brought it down to a four year old level, which is awesome. But you, and you talk about title and that made me think of title insurance. And if you wouldn't mind just explaining a little bit what that is, why it's important and what could happen if you potentially don't.
Diane Ulman: I would venture to say if a purchaser refused to get title insurance, it would be very difficult to find an Ontario lawyer that would do the deal. So historically, a lawyer would write an opinion letter, go through all of the title the historical title books to confirm that the like chain of ownership is correct. Now all of it is electronic. We can do it from our desk for the most part. And everything is certified by the Land Registry Office.
The caveat to that is sometimes there is something that didn't transfer over to the electronic records. So title insurance covers the new brand new owner for any issues that may have happened in the past, but also I think more relevant is it also protects you against things like title mortgage fraud, those types of things that could happen in the future. So your title could be perfect today, you're the new owner, but something really shady could happen in the future. And your title insurance covers it.
There are some other things that it does cover, if the seller takes off and doesn't pay out the last of their utility bills, which they should, your title insurance covers that. So that's not gonna be out of pocket to the new purchaser. But yeah, there are many things and honestly, I really, I wouldn't recommend you don't get title insurance and you only have the option as a buyer if you're buying the home. With cash without a mortgage, if you're getting a mortgage, title insurance is gonna be a requirement.
Sarah Larbi: It doesn't seem to be that expensive either. What are you seeing in terms of cost for title insurance?
Diane Ulman: It varies depending on if it's a detached, if it's a condo where it's located, the value of the purchase price, and also the value of the mortgage itself. So those all get kinda weighed together. On the low end for a condo, it could be 180 bucks, 150 bucks in that range. If you're talking about like a $2 million. Home in the GTA you're looking at perhaps like $1,500, $1,800 depending on the mortgage values involved. But it's a one-time fee. It really is it's worth its weight and gold.
Alfonso Salemi: Definitely worth purchasing that title insurance on that property. And I want to go back to, were you finding some things encumbrances on the properties? And I'm sure you've had some great stories on some things that you've found. We've purchased over 200 homes and, luckily nothing too crazy. It's been sometimes, like you mentioned, utilities not paid out or maybe some back taxes or things like that. But what happens if you're there, you're on closing data or a few days up until closing, and that, I don't know, like ABC construction company has a significant lien on the property. Walk us through that. Worst case is, closing, getting delayed. How does that all get ironed out or worked out?
Diane Ulman: If something is registered on the title, something like that like a notice of pending litigation from a contractor. Absolutely. If I was representing the purchaser, I would absolutely want that dealt with because then if my purchaser closes on the day they're supposed to, it means they're not able to get the title clean.
There's gonna be this lean, this encumbrance, this like black mark basically on the title. In that situation, depending on, the motivations for my purchaser, sure, we would ask for an extension. So this contractor's situation can be sorted. In other situations, sometimes there's essentially I'm calling it a lie, but basically it's a writ, it's called a writ against an individual.
It's basically, there's a court judgment against one of the sellers, so against their personal name. So it actually doesn't appear on the title of the home, but it appears when you search their personal name on the registry. And in that situation, it could be a court judgment. For CRA tax back taxes there's lots of reasons.
Family Responsibility Office is actually an one that pops up quite often, and those situations, it actually depends on the value involved. Because if, say for instance you have a name similar to somebody who has a court judgment against them they can make a statement saying, Hey, I'm not same person and we can just move on with the deal and carry on and there's no issue. So it really depends on the type of encumbrance, the type of writ that pops up at the time, but that's why we're doing our searches on the purchaser side, just to finish that off, we're doing the searches like one to two weeks before closing. So if something like this pops up, we've got time to address it.
Sarah Larbi: Absolutely. And I know like we're talking about different situations, but I'm gonna give you a situation that I think a lot of real estate investors, and I know this is, you're in the industry, always hear about, so let's just say you've bought a house or you bought a, something with vacant possession, quote unquote.
You've asked vacant on the contract and you realize maybe you do a walkthrough the day prior that the tenants is not leaving and you can't move in. Maybe it's some, maybe it's a house that you're moving into. What can you tell us? Maybe you can give us an example of a situation that happened and maybe you can give us, some potential outcomes of what can happen. A, if you close with the tenant in there, and B, if you see tenant is not moving out, maybe a day.
Diane Ulman: Oh, tenant questions. Yes. Hot topic. I feel like I'm talking about tenant scenarios. Most days of the week.
Sarah Larbi: It's our race, right? We're landlords. We invest enough. This situation will happen. Hopefully it doesn't happen to you, but it will happen at some point. I feel like it's very common. I don't know how often you see
Diane Ulman: Yes. So it comes up quite often. This is where if we actually have to do some kind of go, going a few steps forward, if we have to go to the landlord tenant tribunal, we're also getting like a paralegal involved, cause this is very much like their wheelhouse to appear at the tribunal.
Talking about closing day, leading up to closing day, we find out there's a tenant that hasn't vacated. Again, if I'm on the purchaser's, If we have flexibility not to close and just extend it, I would highly recommend extending the closing date because you're, if you close and you take on that tenant, you're pretty much inheriting that issue and now you're gonna be dragged into it.
It would be better if you we're able to extend a month or whatever, and hopefully that tenant, that's enough time for that tenant to leave. Certainly on the seller side, if you've got a, it's your tenant who isn't leaving. Oh man, you are on the face of it, on closing day, you are in breach of that contract and you've opened yourself up to liability to be sued by the purchaser cause you were not able to deliver that home with vacant possession as you contracted.
In that situation, I, as a seller, I would be highly motivated to perhaps do a cash for key scenario to make sure that tenant leaves and certainly, I would be handing over any cash for those keys hand in hand when their moving truck is already started and in the driveway. Don't send them that money a week before and hope they leave a week later.
It's gotta be kinda right at that moment when they're driving away. So yeah, it's a tricky situation. There's no silver bullet. Unfortunately. I wish if there were, we would be like the number one law firm in all of Ontario . We can solve that issue. But yeah, you just keep in communication with your lawyers involved. Let them know when you're going through those walkthroughs. Hey, heads up, I don't think the tenant has packed their stuff. Just wanna let you know so we can get ahead.
I just wanna summarize it. So as the buyer, if you are trying to buy something that has no tenant in there, it is probably best that you at least have you save one of your showings. The last showing for, I usually do it the afternoon before so that I could do a walkthrough. Not only to make sure if I asked for vacant possession that person is actually gone, because if they're not, then I need to let lawyers know to delay the closing. Like you said, as soon as you close it becomes your problem. But B, I've had situations before where I've had to get two dump trucks of crap moved, and luckily the seller in this case ended up paying for it and we're fine, with covering the costs.
These are things that you could negotiate ahead of time if you at least save your last showing before you actually close. If there's any big issues that are in breach of contract, if you are the seller and you've got your tenant there. That's unfortunately a hard battle and hopefully cash for keys work, they don't always work. But I think from a summary, be careful on agreeing to vacant possession. If you know that it may not be something that you can do.
Alfonso Salemi: I remember the first, I don't know, it was probably the first couple years that we came in and Sarah, your point exactly like we'd set up a walkthrough and there was just garbage, let's just say garbage all over the house.
The day or two before that we're scheduled to close. There's one, there's actually. A car motor in a living room. I've never seen this. I've never that sense, right? So it's not okay, you know what, there's garbage and dumped and all right, some people, everybody lives their own way. No judgment, right?
All that kind of stuff. But when those kind of items, once you do close, is there any recourse? So let's just say you walk through and you're like, Hey, I saw that engine in the living room, you better get it out of there. And they're like, oh yeah, no problem. And then you do out there what are the steps, because I know a lot of investors want to get in there, start the renos or start their project getting all those things going. What is the recourse of if you're officially closed, are you just so l after that?
Diane Ulman: The sad answer to that is your SOL to the extent of your two real estate lawyers being able to battle it out because that seller. They're out of there. They're gone. They're not gonna be able to find those tenants anymore to get that engine out of the living room. So really, what's the recourse? The recourse is small claims court.
The good news is, small claims court is I mean it's been a number of years now, but the maximum is, $35,000 plus your legal fee. So it's th 35k can cover a lot of dumpster removal, thank goodness. But that, unfortunately, that is the recourse. And you'd be going after the seller, not so much the tenant. You're going after the original homeowner.
Sarah Larbi: Absolutely. So I wanna take a little bit of a different turn and I wanna talk about the pandemic a little bit and just to see what's been happening in the real estate market.
You get a view from a legal standpoint. I'm just curious, maybe this is even more of a real estate investing question, but, You're seeing the deals come through, you're seeing the purchase prices come through from a lot of investors. Are you seeing certain strategies right now working better than others or certain, towns or cities that people are doing even better and I don't know if you're able to share some of that stuff, but I'd be interested in knowing.
Diane Ulman: When it comes to better, like whether they're like return on investment, that I don't know, but the number of deals I'm receiving where the property in question is up in Sue St. Marie, it's out in Timmons. Very much way outside the GTA.
I'm seeing more and more of those properties happening. And these are our single family residences, duplexes, those types of things. I'm not talking about cottages, I'm talking about like actual residences. So I'm seeing a lot more of those over the past year. And yeah, so that's of the main thing for the most part. I'm not seeing too many fix and flips. Like it certainly happens, but I'm seeing a lot of buy and holds, especially for those for the, like the timmons Sue Saint Marie deals that I've been seeing.
Sarah Larbi: It's better cash flow, I'm guessing.
Diane Ulman: I would imagine. Yes.
Alfonso Salemi: Again, and when you are purchase, when you're looking at purchasing these deals, obviously the legal aspect comes into play. You want a clean title, all those types of things. But we also work with a lot of different partners, right? And sometimes lenders are like, wait, who is this? Why are you there? I remember even just recently, I walked into a lawyer's office and we were picking up keys from one of our joint venture partners, and they're like, wait, who are you?
I was just like, I just said my name. I didn't say who I was or what we were doing, and I was like, made to feel like, here's my ID here. Do you want my blood type? I was like, do I need to show a negative Covid test? . So when you're working with joint venture partners we've come a different couple angles from this either structuring.
We'll talk about that first. Maybe structuring that. What's some advice that, you've got a few deals under your belt, you wanna start working with joint venture partners. What are some of the, foundational things that you want to talk about with a joint venture partner? And then obviously putting that into a contract so that you can plan for that. Or any disagreements that come in.
Diane Ulman: I think the, going into a JV agreement is the easy part. It's how do you get out of it. So that's usually what I'm more, most concerned about in the joint venture agreements is how does when JV partner exit, or is there a timeframe that all the JV partners are supposed to stay in it and nobody's supposed to leave for X amount of time, for the a year or something like that?
I'm very much mostly focused on the exit strategy, just so everybody understands the rules and I'm saying, I'm asking those questions. The JV partners are telling me what their wishes are on how a partner would be able to be bought out, for instance. Other basic things are how are you sharing the information?
Are you like opening a share drive and everybody's got access to it? Is there. One person who's really basically the sweat equity partner and the other JV partners are more silent partners. So they really don't wanna see every receipt going on at the every expense going on at the property or that. So that is very deal dependent and also keeping track of the money. So is there separate bank account or is it running through somebody's personal account? So these are all very important factors.
Sarah Larbi: Great advice. And they say plan the exit before you plan the buy. So that is really important. And I think that could be a potential con with sometimes using joint ventures is you gotta really figure out the exit because it's not gonna be 20 years, it's not gonna be 30 years for the most part. You're gonna be exiting and, common is 3, 5, 7 years or whatnot.
Diane Ulman: Yes. What are you using as your valuation? What is fair market value five years from now? I'm guessing it's not gonna be the impact report if you're talking about a GTA property, right? So also understanding, how are we gonna value this property? What are we gonna agree on? Are we getting appraisals. Like three different appraisers, three different real estate agents and average them out or take like the middle, middle of the road. So there's definitely some conversations to be had there.
Alfonso Salemi: You can put some of those, you can put some of that language in the contracts, or you can word them that way of obviously I always call them disagreements because that's the only time you really look at them, right?
Is when there is a disagreement. They call, there are called agreements, but is that like saying, at three years, or five years or seven years, the length of the term of determining what the value is and putting that language.
Diane Ulman: Alfonso, I heard you say that on a previous podcast where you're like it should be called a disagreement. And it absolutely should, because really you don't need the contract if everything goes perfectly. So really you're planning for the downside for any, and I'm even saying just like minor disagreements, not some big, Blow up the deal kind of disagreements. Just, if there's something a little vague, it could cause a greater issue among all of the partners. Yeah, it's super important.
Alfonso Salemi: Laying that out. Nice.
Sarah Larbi: A hundred percent. Obviously there's lots of JVs happening and there's lots of contracts set ups that, that we've just discussed, but there's also a lot of private lenders and people borrowing private money and that just seems like it's happening more and more.
It's a either people just, there's not enough deals maybe and they just wanna start loaning short term or people are wanting to be the bank. cause I'll tell you, there's definitely some pros to just being very passive. From a legal standpoint and private mortgages. What are some of the things that we should be aware of as real estate investors?
Diane Ulman: Depending on it really, I guess everything I'm about to say goes for both sides, whether you're on the borrower side or the lender side. It's for the most part, any private mortgages that I'm working on or my office is working on, we're working with investors who are either borrowing or lending.
We're not so much working with private mortgages where somebody needs a private second or third mortgage to pay off a whole bunch of credit card debt. So I'm not even gonna be discussing that. But from the investor side it provides so much flexibility. Yes. On the whole the interest rates involved are more than, a schedule a bank of course, but Wow.
It's absolutely flexible and really the limitations are the limitations of how creative the two people are the borrower and the lender. So I am seeing a lot more of those. And for the most part it's, the borrowers involved are investors that just have too many doors. They've got too many properties in their own name, and the banks aren't willing to look at them anymore.
They're going the private lending route. And it seems to be working extremely well. And then from the lender side, Yeah, at a certain point, I think it's awfully nice to be a passive investor and just watch those checks, get cashed every month and not worry about tenant issues, for instance. That, that's my long-term plan, I must admit.
Sarah Larbi: That's awesome. Now, can you structure this without involving any type of financing, mortgage broker bank, can you just go directly, like if you've got, a partner that's either borrowing or lending the money, can you just go straight to the lawyer and if so, what's the benefit or the downside to that?
Diane Ulman: You can, I would say on the lenders side though, if you start doing this too much I actually spoke with one investor where he was doing private lending for many years and he got flagged because he didn't hold his mortgage broker license, so he was lending out too much. So there is an advantage to keeping a mortgage broker involved.
They get their commission but at least they're going through the steps of FINTRAC for instance, making sure that the source of the funds and the people involved are confirmed and verified. So I think that was the main issue of this individual that I'm referring to. So that's one thing. But yes, you can go directly to a lawyer, but I would recommend keeping a mortgage broker involved cause that is their wheel.
Alfonso Salemi: With when you're dealing with that, like there's, I know for realtors they have errors and omissions type insurance. Is there some type of layer protection with brokers or if you are working with private lenders, is there something that you can do so that is equivalent maybe.
Diane Ulman: Mortgage brokers do as well. They have their version of like errors and emissions and so do real estate lawyers. So that's actually an important point, is that make sure your, the lawyer you're working with has the additional real estate insurance that's required. So you know, Not every lawyer can be a real estate lawyer.
Really, it comes down to are you paying some extra fees for insurance to get the little check mark on your directory name with the Law Society. But it's a very important step for sure. So you are covered in multiple routes. If somebody along the way makes a mistake you are protected.
Alfonso Salemi: Great advice. And just to speak to the power team around you and the people that you're working with, you want the, those professionals in those areas. You can't be doing all that. I don't remember the last time I read a full aps or title search or all that kind of stuff.
I know the sections you have to fill out. But you want your lawyer reviewing that and putting them up their profession in front for you to do that professional work. So Diane, I think it's I think it's time for the lightning round. Are you ready to get started?
Diane Ulman: I'm ready.
Sarah Larbi: All right. Very cool. So there's gonna be four questions and every guest. Gets the same questions. You're gonna give us the first answer that comes to mind in the shortest amount of time possible. So ready to play?
Diane Ulman: Ready to go? Yeah.
Sarah Larbi: Question number one, what is the best advice that you have ever received from another investor or at a networking events?
Diane Ulman: Keep your overhead low. It gives you so much flexibility if you're not tied down to a whole bunch of expenses.
Alfonso Salemi: I love that. Reduced cost, increase revenue, right? And get that big spread. Nice. Alright, question number two. What is your favorite resource for real estate investing?
Diane Ulman: Before we started recording, I was saying that I've listened to The REITE clubs podcast. We're over two years now. First introduced to it. Absolutely love it. And Sarah, of course your podcast as well. It's on my regular rotation, so I drive a lot. So I listen to them. Yeah, all the time.
Sarah Larbi: Awesome. Thanks Diane. Podcasts are the answer then number three. Diane, what is the one attribute in your opinion that has made you most successful?
Diane Ulman: I would say asking why I was that kid. That would be like, why do I have to do that? Why does it work that way? I drove my parents nuts. But I will say I think it's served me very well because it made me question some of the tried and true traditions of how to start a law firm and some of those things that we chose not to do. So I think it's that questioning and wanting to figure out why things work the way they do that serve me really well.
Alfonso Salemi: Definitely in the right profession. I have a younger sister that was always like that. Why? Why? My parents are, you should be a lawyer and you actually went to go on and become a lawyer.
Diane Ulman: My parents were like, ask me later, do it now. Cause I told you.
Alfonso Salemi: That was usually the answer that we got cause I told you. But now asking that. Yeah. When a lawyer's asking, you can't just say it's cause I told you to, but they got, you got the power of the bar behind. Alright. Last question of the lightning round. What does a typical Sunday morning look like for you?
Diane Ulman: For sure sleeping in and for the most part we're probably up north on the weekends at my in-laws cottage. Yeah. In Love and Life up there.
Sarah Larbi: Very cool. So what time is sleeping in? Because that's very relative.
Diane Ulman: On it, like for sure 10:30.
Sarah Larbi: Oh wow. Ok. So you actually are sleeping in, so some people I ask that and they're like 8:30. I'm like, okay, whatever.
Diane Ulman: It's a little bit more of a sleep in for sure.
Sarah Larbi: That's a true sleep in. Awesome. Diane, where can The REITE Club Nation reach out and find out more?
Diane Ulman: Our website? Absolutely. So it would be integrislaw.ca and certainly you can reach out to me directly @dianeintegrislaw.ca.
Sarah Larbi: Amazing. That's awesome. Diane, any last final words of advice for The REITE club nation?
Diane Ulman: Oh, man. Work on your power team. Don't reinvent the wheel. Just, yeah. Ask for help and ask why .
Alfonso Salemi: That's great. Awesome. Thank you so much, Diane.
Diane Ulman: Thank you.
Alfonso Salemi: What a great chat with Diane and what a great perspective that she brings to the table. She's an investor herself. She's looking at it from the legal perspective. She cleared it up for me what real estate lawyers actually do, cause like I said, we get it tied up all legals and closings and all that kind of stuff and how you can protect yourself.
We talked a little bit about the title insurance as well, but having a great real estate lawyer on your power team or to get a couple different opinions, so important. So if you haven't reached out or talked to Diane, definitely get in touch with her. Sarah, what did you think of the chat.
Sarah Larbi: I thought it was great. You know what is really cool is now we have access to any real estate investing lawyer that we want across the country because they all have gone to Zoom and virtual. So we have access to really build our team. Where Ontario, coast to coast in terms of Ontario, doesn't really matter. We can pick the best people for our team.
I'm really excited. Based in the last two years and the changes that have happened, we've been able to not have to go in person anymore because of the banks and the lenders. They don't require in-person signing and doing some stuff virtually, not everything, but this has, in my opinion, been a huge asset of not having to A. commute, but B. it just expands the opportunities of picking exactly who you want from a legal standpoint on our team.
Alfonso Salemi: Absolutely. And we all have, our different paths of our, as real estate investors is as professionals as we're going on and bringing those people that you want on your team to help you.
Everybody does a little different way so you can learn from Diane works in Ontario. Like Sarah said, we have, professionals from across the country but we can take the best advice and the best strategies and apply it to how we wanna do it. Doesn't need to be exactly the same. There are no two that ever are exactly the same.
Remember that, don't when you, sometimes you're comparing or looking at or saying, oh, I need to do this. Or, look, that's what they're doing and this is what I need to do. Make it your own journey. Remember why you're doing it, and bring the people in that are professionals and the best in their industries to help you along the way.
Great chat and really love doing these podcasts. Hope you guys enjoy them. If you do. Don't forget to rate, review them, share them with a friend, and of course, get onto thereiteclub.com website and have your voice heard and hear everybody else's as well too. Until next time.
Sarah Larbi: Come up with us. See you next week.
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